I read on the forum here about another site called "petlosss.com" and decided to just have a look at the site. They have an animal tribute section there as well. I began to read of the losses that others too have suffered and was doing fine untill I got down to "kitten-7 weeks old" then that thing I keep locked in box and never let out, got out....RAGE raced out of its cage! I turned to my God and blasted him with words & phrases that I cannot mention here. It wouldn't be appropriate nor do I wish to be banned. In short "How can a God let a 7 week old kitten die?" There...I said it. I know I shouldn't have...I know it is not my Gods place to invoke life when death has come calling no matter how young...but I just couldn't help it. The army loved my rage. It got things done overseas. They knew how to direct it better than I. But now they are gone and there is no place for the monster so it must be locked up and treated like pandoras box. I cried for the kitten....hard, Not knowing anything about it..colour...gender...not even a name...JUST KITTEN!!! I sought the help of a person some time ago to find out what was the matter with weak me. Why do I feel with such ferocity & intensity? Turns out that I was quite normal & refreshingly, I am one male who should be glad of the fact I am in touch with my feelings & can express them. However I am not....the down side to that is the pain that I feel when pets like I read about there and here on this site is so intense I am not capable of holding it in. It comes out wether I want it to or not. So needless to say I had to go back and apologize to my God for being such a big blundering dufus. Like I stated in another post...the only divine intervention in life....is death........

John,

Your posts touch me so, and not just cuz you're a guy expressing emotional things. If you haven't yet been able to tell, I, too, suffer alot of rage inside for things I perceive as unjust. So I'd like to share a quote with you that I hope might help you feel more okay about your turmoil. I know it's helped me:

"Often anger is a sign of engagement with life. People who are angry are touched deeply by the events of their lives and feel strongly about them...Anger is just a demand for change, a passionate wish for things to be different...And, as it was for me, it may be the first expression of the will to live."
~From Kitchen Table Wisdom~

I remember the first time I ever read this, and said to myself, "YAH! EXACTLY! THAT'S what underlies everything everytime I get mad about something!"...and it still applies today.

In Hollywood, such passion, even over-the-top rage, is often the basis for the most-liked movies and their leading characters. Those characters don't usually go around feeling the need to apologize to those around them for their passion about something they feel so strongly about. And we, we enjoy associating with them, because they are only able to express what we also feel, deep down, but are reluctant to express out loud. (in women, this is often even more engaging, as we're not supposed to show anger) In movies, it's considered a good thing...in real life, it's frowned upon. We are a race of hypocrites in many ways and that's certainly worth being passionate against. These feelings need to be expressed, so that they don't become even MORE uncontrollable!I do understand how the intensity of such feelings can be so overwhelming, and uncontrollable at times...a sure sign that they are begging for more expression! The God in me understands this, too.

While I don't have any ready answers that I KNOW to be absolutely true about the kind of question you're pleading for an answer to, I do somehow trust (deeper inside than I can explain) that there IS a logical, sane and loving answer to things such as this. And I have my theories, but most people would likely not be able or willing to accept them, and even I rail against parts of them that I believe but can't explain fully...because I can't explain them fully!

Let me leave you with these thoughts: If Life truly never does end, but just changes form and continues on, that Divine Intervention might be that we simply come to remember this and so end our suffering, because we will then be able to really see that death is nothing more than an illusion. In other words, the only reason we suffer is because we haven't yet been able to 'part that thin veil', which is just another phrase to describe our misperception, or mistake. If we could, would it really matter how old or young any living being was when they 'carried on' with life, and especially if we could still interact with them in some equally satisfying, though perhaps different way as on this plane?

So I don't think you're being a "blundering dufus" at all. You're just touching a very deep part of your consciousness that wants to know and remember...and that is probably one of the shortest paths back to our Source that there is. At least, that's how I see it.

Thank You! I read that post 3 times! It is the first rational explanation for my anger I have ever encountered. Who would have thought I would have found it here. I printed it out!!!! It is one emotion I have that for years wished I could have "surgically removed" somehow. You have shown me the truth and the why of it. I was told by "freinds" it was a waste of energy that was harmful to my emotional health. Therefore any little bit of anger at all I ever felt I would try to hide. But deep inside I knew I was not being true to myself by doing that. I think the key to using it effectively is to not stay in it and try to do something constructive with it. I am grateful for your words. You have made my day

Woo-HOO! I'm so GLAD it helped that much!! Yes, much can be gained when people aren't afraid to talk about what's really in their hearts and heads....why I'm such a yammerer!

Here's the ironic flip-side, though....ready?...the next time you feel angry, and you decide to share this little piece of wisdom with others who oppose your passionate response, and they still don't agree with this insight....you'll likely get even angrier!! It'll be THE most ironic twist ever! But don't let me wreck your day!

You ARE right, though ~ the trick is to try to use that feeling, or whatever feeling, constructively. The only problem I sometimes have with that is actually coming up with an exact WAY to do that! What's constructive, and what isn't? (have I got a real masculine side to me, or what? ) Sometimes it requires too much thought and it's just as good to go and beat up a pillow, or rant at God. And maybe those things are constructive all by themselves, but coupled with this new outlook, it's even better.

Heaven is a place of total bliss and peace and happiness and joy and other wonderful things. So if a person or animal goes there, they are luckier than the rest of us left here in this place of suffering and hardships. God is blessing them by taking them through death to this wonderful place. But we just see the death and think it's a bad thing.

John

I too have been full of rage and questions. People who feel deeply are passionate, about many things. I have done a lot of reading/studying in the last few years. One of the things that has helped me most is understanding that it is not the 'thing' that happens that makes us suffer, it is our resistance to it. A kitten is dead, is the thing. It should not be, is the resistance. The resistance is what gives us the pain. Now understand I am by no means saying I can do this, but if we didn't resist, we wouldn't feel the pain.

Here is what I'm trying to do and it seems to be working. (When Moose died I forgot all of this, go figure). Instead of resisting, or feeling like you that I try to find acceptable ways to let it out, get rid of it. Go outside and pound the trees. Yeah it hurts but the pain is easier to take than the rage. In fact I think yelling at God is a great way to do it. After all, you can't hurt God and it made you feel better didn't it?

Fact is you are normal and the rage is normal, I know you know that. You are not 'big blundering dufus' just a passionate person. Life should be felt deeply. I try to find socially acceptable ways to feel what I feel. Not resist what I feel but truly feel it. Some things I don't feel comfortable doing, screaming at the unfairness of the universe in the mall comes to mind, so I try to find a way to do the same thing without embarrassing myself. I wish I was stronger and could say who cares about society, but I'm not there yet.

What you feel is what you feel, try not to judge it or resist it, feel it. When I rememeber to do it, it helps me.

Love
Lori

Hi Everyone:

Like all of you, I am no stranger to the feelings of RAGE & ANGER.

There are two major problems in this world that anger me more than anything -- They are:
ANY form of child abuse AND ANY form of animal abuse. I am sure that I'm not alone!

I urge all of you, who love animals to please check out AND become active in http://www.pet-abuse.com/.
When you are at the homepage, click on "Take the Tour".
After that, please click on "Fight Animal Cruelty".



Certainly there are times when one needs to get rid of the physical feelings of rage & anger that lives within yourself. Beating up a pillow, screaming into a pillow, write out your feelings in a journal, etc... Exercising helps - go for a run or walk.

I abhor those that abuse children and/or animals! I know that these perpetrators/monsters WILL receive the ultimate punishment when it comes time for Judgement Day. Of that, I have zero doubt!

I don't have lots of money to donate to child abuse or animal abuse causes..... BUT, what I can do is send letters/e-mails to the prosecutors & judges who handle these HORRIFIC cases & plead with them that animal abuse needs to be taken VERY SERIOUSLY, and that it is my wish that the 'monster' who has committed these heinous crimes be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
And, that these monsters need to be put away for a longer time!! Punishment sometimes is just a slap on the wrist -- that makes me sick!!
ANIMAL ABUSE CANNOT & SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY!!

This is something that I can do that I feel is extremely constructive. I'm only one person, and I cannot make a huge difference, BUT....TOGETHER, we can make a change!

These 'monsters', who choose to violently & consciously hurt/kill defenseless animals/pets (who have no voice for themselves--WE HAVE TO BE THEIR VOICES!!), sometimes do not stop there. They go on to hurt/kill defenseless human beings.

If you feel that you don't have the time to write and/or e-mail the appropriate people, you can make up your own form letter and then make any necessary changes that are pertinent to the case you are writing about.
You can also choose the state that you live in and be active with ongoing cases.

I just wanted to share something that I feel is constructive.

Peace & Love to you all,

Denise

Lori, one of the big problems I have when it comes to rage IS appropriate use. It's too late to "take back the words" when you have already said them. When I slighted my God about the kitten I was very rude and unkind. I spoke the words and now time cannot be turned back. Heck, if I could do that Chase would be sitting here on my lap right now. The point is that rage is the single most difficult emotion to attach any kind of rational behavior to when I engage it. It (rage) is unpredictable in its onset so rational behavior cannot always be dominant because rage is so impulsive. When Chase died there was and has not been anger. There was denial initially but it was fleeting and then I went direct to the sorrow stage. I was perplexed with my behavior after reading about the 7 week old kitten however. There was no warning it was coming. I read the tribute to it and then exploded in anger venting all of it towards my God. When I was done the guilt was soon to follow because deep down inside I knew it was inapproprite....I felt ashamed. As Furkidlets' Mom stated when she posted...constructive use, that is the trick...and you mentioned trying to find an acceptable way to let it out. The sheer impulsiveness of anger however denies any kind of constructive or acceptable solutions because of its total diregard for rational thought. Can't I just have the thing removed

John,

This is a really good topic you started.

It strikes me that perhaps at least some of that rage you felt when seeing the kitten's 'obit' perhaps wasn't about the kitten so much as it was just a trigger for buried and hidden rage at something about your loss. I've noticed that many folks who believe it's not acceptable to get mad at God can often bury that natural anger...especially if one believes God 'takes' our loved ones. Whereas I believe that not only are they not 'taken' per se, but that if emotions are really not 'good' or 'bad', and we are part of God, then anger is part and parcel of our basic package and should no more be denied in ourselves than any other emotion we're graced with. Just as there's an opposite for everything, else we couldn't experience the opposite thing by contrast, w/o anger, we couldn't feel its opposites, like empathy and softness of heart. And therefore, also, there's nothing inherently wrong with getting angry at our Creator....who's all-encompassing enough to 'take it', if you know what I mean, and who also either created it, or co-created it with us.

I don't usually suffer anger towards either my loved one (for dying), nor God, after a loss, but I DO have generalized anger at the whole situation/picture and things like the big questions...like the meaning of life...so it comes out anyway, in irritation and short-fusedness. OR, if I think it really is applicable and justifiable, at the vets/docs or someone else involved.

I've wished for, not the total absence of anger, but at least a toning-DOWN of it...just enough to give me more time to either think a few seconds before I speak, or at least not have it last as long as it can at times....like when I'm feeling really passionate about some issue. To be rid of it completely might not serve us well, as often it's linked to other important thoughts and processes....like self-protection or something we need brought to our awareness so that we can be alerted to steps we ought to take in some situation, for our ultimate good. Anger is often one of the best impetuses to changing something that's not helpful to us, so it's not really a 'bad' thing. And I think the more we truly give ourselves permission to allow its expression (whilst striving to express it in a better way), the less we feel overpowered by it....over time and effort. We also, of course, have to 'own' it as our own, particular inner response to anything and anyone else's behaviour, realizing that this is how WE happen to respond and that, for us, there's a pay-off to becoming angry...in my case, for example, it was a learned response that seemed to offer some form of protection and self-power, and that was also deemed more than 'okay' in my family.

All of this is well and good, but also keep in mind that during grief, anger and guilt are the 2 single most common feelings of grievers...like it or not. And since we're so raw and vulnerable-feeling after a loss, all of our feelings lay much closer to the surface as we're just overly-sensitive to begin with, so it can be virtually impossible to 'stifle' any of them either at all or for very long. They will sit there, waiting for the chance to be heard, and accepted. And that's where radical acceptance of ALL our feelings, without exception, can help us, even if no one around us is willing to. (and now I feel the anger, and hurt, suddenly building in ME again, for all the insensitivity to my sorrow that's around me here....time to 'step in' and remind myself yet again that intense feelings often frighten people, only because they don't know how to simply ALLOW them to flow...and also that many people are averse to making apologies which show they're fallible, too....) Sigh....grief is NOT for the weak....we end up doing SO much work, on behalf of ourselves AND others, when we're so depleted to begin with. Here's more rage -> IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!AND I DON'T LIKE IT!! (stomp! stomp!) AND I WANT TO CHANGE THE WAY THINGS ARE!!!

Oh, and Lori and Denise....ditto to everything YOU both said, too!!! (but I can't even begin to look at that website yet, Denise....it would hurt just TOOOO much right now...tho I DO fight for animals when and where I can and have for years now and AM aware of almost all of the issues, so can pretty much imagine what's on that site anyway....later, I'll take a peak)

Yes it appears I've misplaced my instruction book on correct usage of this particular emotion. It seems of late I will explode, then stop long enough to take my right foot out of my mouth....and put the left one in. The kitten could be a trigger. I understand that it (anger) is part & parcel of me and since given to me by my Creator cannot be wrong. Far be it from me to judge the Supreme Beings engineering skills when it comes to fabricating people! But an odd thing just happened here in the forum when I strayed to a different part of it to read posts and I found a post by the LS Administrator. I had never seen a post from our leader before and by the time I finished reading it I was seething mad. In the post he was lectured by a representative from the wildlife rescue on how he should not have bothered helping a baby goldfinch that dropped into a pool and it seemed to me the reps "education" on the issue gave him the right to downdress a person trying to help one of Gods creatures when it most needed it. I envisioned knocking that rude person to the ground and "educating" him on what he did wrong to leave himself open during a fistfight.....then after standing him on his feet starting another "lesson" "till he got it right. WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH ME Maybe this trigger you describe is just that, I did say that when Chase died I did not feel angry towards my God and went directly to the grief stage. Could it be that I skipped a stage of grief I shouldn't have or possibly denied myself of because I know in my heart the Creator is the Keeper of Chase and I dare not offend Him? I must admit I am a tad confused and perplexed at my behavior. The link below is to the post I made reference to...

http://lightning-strike.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2039

P.S. Forum Administrator
I sincerely hope I have not offended you in any way by making reference to your post. In this time of turmoil for me you can see I am questioning my own judgement.

Hey John

Great topic, I think a lot of us struggle with this. One of the things I've wanted for ages is a rule book for life. Sometimes it seems that everyone else knows the rules and I just don't.

This is just a thought, but we can't make ourselves mad enough, we can't get angry enough, we can't get enraged enough, we can't get depressed enough, or sick enough, or cry enough to bring our babys back. We only hurt ourselves.

One of the things I was trying to say, and when I read my post I relise I didn't, sorry, is that when we try to keep the "monster in the box" it becomes so huge. We have to find a way to let it go everyday. When it becomes unpredictable is when we keep it bottled up, keep it in the box, keep resisting it.

Some of the ways to do that are kind of silly. Like becoming enraged and screaming at a pay phone or a fire plug every time you see them. Pick something to get mad at every day. After a while the rage starts to drain, when you find yourself laughing instead, it's a win. The point is don't resist or push down your rage. Get it out in a way you (and everyone else) finds acceptable. After a while, you drain the rage in you, it becomes less unpredictable, with you in control. It sounds like you have great wells of rage, so it could take a while.

I think that there is nothing wrong with you, nothing to fix, you are not broken! I think accepting yourself for yourself, not resisting what you are, may be part of an answer.

Triggers are a problem. I knew that anger at the loved one is part of grief, and I let myself be angry at Moustache. How could he leave us? How could he mess up the family we were all so proud of? And on and on. It wasn't easy at all. I saw my husband try to deny that he would be angry at our boy and he had some of the unpredictable rage coming up. Angry at Chase and at your God may be the thing you need right now. If you presume to know more than your God, don't you think he can handle it? He's God, right? Now if your God is a God of love, don't you think he will understand and forgive you? I don't think you skipped a stage of grief, I think you are hitting it right now. One thing you may need to do too is forgive yourself, for whatever. I have a feeling you may be holding on to something, some guilt or something. Something about Chase's death?

One other thought. Just like we can be addicted to substances, we can be addicted to emotions. Strong emotions are what we are more likley to be addicted to. Anger is a great one, rage even better. If you cannot control the emotion, there is a strong chance you are addicted to it. Just knowing that can help you to understand yourself.

Furkidlets' Mom

The strong emotions we have in grief are very hard to handle. It is scary to allow them to flow. I was so frightened 10 years ago of the grief I put it away. It made me so depressed it took me YEARS to get over it. This time I'm trying to feel whatever I feel, and it's so dang hard! A lot of stuff I needed to process 10 years ago is comming up now. It seems like it's working better, even if it makes me feel quite crazy sometimes.


You are right, it's not fair, not at all. Letting yourself feel that is okay, letting it make you feel bad is resistance. Accept it, when you can, work on how to change the way things are, and then be aware things are going to be how they are, no matter how bad you feel.

Love
Lori

Sigh.....you had to bring that guilt thing up . I came home from work last night and read your post before retiring. I thought about the guilt thing on & off thru the night and explored that part of the process only to realize that I in fact have beem pushing that out. Me do something to cause my Baby's death???....certainly not!. But the thought crept in that if I had been there I may have spotted a problem & been able to deal with it. But I was not so she died ..alone. So Iwent into the basement where my wife couldn't hear me (that would make her sad too) & I cried. I miss that goofy little gadget so much. I don't know if the guilt is the source of my anger but I do know I am in a place today I do not want to be in.

By the way Lori don't go posting you are sorry you brought the guilt issue up. I am GLAD you did. You should start to know by now I am just a big sap OK..you know I totally respect & value your input

Hey John

I'm glad that if you had something to explore and understand something I said helped you to do that. I don't think you're a sap, just sad and rightly so.

Know that the guilt is part of the grief, just like everything else. At some point you would find something to feel guilty of. It's actually not good to try to stop it, just feel it and then let it go. For me I find it can feed into the rage, not quiet sure why. My grief seems to always lead to guilt and anger, at the one gone or the universe, so in talking about anger it just leads me to guilt.

Also know that there was really nothing you could have done. I've seen you get upset at people who blamed themselves so give yourself a break. I'm so sure you are a great daddy. Like I tell my husband, there is always something else we COULD have done, but if you did your best, and I'm sure you did, no one, not even you, can ask for more.

Isn't it amazing how much we miss them? How such a little being can fill our lives and leave such a huge hole? I think they may be small in body but they are huge in soul. I'll bet Moose and Chase are somewhere having a great time together!

Love
Lori

Thanks Lori..As usual you are a good shoulder to "cry on". Although you are not really here, I read the post while my cat sits on my lap, then if I need to cry I just do it on the cat. I'm thinking about gettin' him a scuba diving suit this Christmas!!!

I found a scuba suit for Piper...What do you think



PS: that really is my cat Pipers head on the suit....poor pumpkin....don't think he's too happy about this one

lol- that is funny! Now I don't feel so bad about dressing the Schtoob up as an angel-

John

LOL OMG now that is funny. Scuba Piper! Piper is so handsome. I know what you mean about the scuba diving suit. I've cried so many tears on poor Autumn's head. She helped me as a baby when Butch and Alex died, and now with Moose. She needs a scuba diving suit, or a rainhat, LOL.

Love
Lori