Hi everybody. Well, I haven't been posting lately because I have been so busy with everything, but I have been reading and praying for you all.
For those of you who read my post 'It's been nearly two years~am I ready for this' I am having a new delimma with Lucy, and knew this was the best place to ask for advice. She has begun to act aggressive toward my daughter about anything that is close to her. She has bitten my daughter twice, which is a zero tolerance behavior when it comes to my child, so I know she can't stay here with us permanently, even if I wanted her to, as she can't be trusted with her. She just loved my daughter in the beginning so I don't know what triggered it, but it has happened none the less. The first incident, Lucy was eating a treat, and Regan ,my daughter, was wanting to help feed her the chunks that were falling (as she always does with our other dog) and Lucy became food aggressive with her (which she hadn't been with us). We decided that we would crate her while she was eating and that would be the end of that. Well, soon after, one of my daughters toy's was lying next to Lucy, and when she went to get it, Lucy bit her again. She hasn't broken the skin, but she left some pretty nice purple indentures! We tried to seperate her into a spare room, but she freaked out and started clawing at the door and barking and howling. Now she is having to stay out in the garage, where she has free access to the backyard, because we can't risk any further aggressive action toward our daughter..no matter what the cause. I really think this household is just too much for an older dog that is used to being an only child with only one elderly person in the household. I think she would be much happier in a more calm environment and that her behavior is only a result of the stress of all the activity around her that she isn't used to. She is still just as loving as she can be with me and my husband and we can do anything we want with her and her food and she never (so far) has given us any trouble, so I think it is just environment and the noise and activity that comes with a 2 year old. I guess my real issue is what do you think of me for deciding that this must be a foster situation (as it was originally intended) only with no hope of a permanent situation. I wrote to an animal loving friend of mine looking for guidance and she basically made me feel terrible about it. She said when you live with animals, you have to expect these things to happen. She said I should better teach my 2 year old. She said I should try 'flower essence' and so forth to try to calm Lucy. The problem is that I'm not willing to use my child as a guinea pig and try a hit or miss method of trying to 'fix' something that is obviously a cause of general unhappiness with her surroundings, nor do I think it is ever acceptable for anyone to allow their child to live in a less than safe environment no matter how much they love animals. I was so hurt when she said 'if you are gonna get rid of Lucy, then you might as well get rid of all of your animals because any animal is capable of biting'. It made me feel as though I was throwing Lucy away like garbage when it isn't like that at all. If I didn't care about her, I would have never rescued her in the first place. I just have such mixed feelings now. I can't keep her, that isn't fair to my daughter, but if I let her go into the rescue that wants to take her next week, I have now been made to feel as though I have thrown her away. I did everything I could to give her a second chance, and just because it can't be here with me doesn't mean she can't still have a happy life...right? I can't say I regret getting her out of that shelter, she was facing a terrible death in there, but part of me does feel now like I should have just left things alone....I just feel terrible. Please give me your opinions on this...even if they may not be what I want to hear...I really need some guidance right now from as many minds as are willing to share..
Thanks yall~Love,
Kim

Hi KIm,

I am no expert, but I do applaud you for taking in Lucy, but I agree that your house may not be the answer due to cir%%stances. A two year old is high energy and if Lucy is not use to that, and being old; it's probably just too much. I also agree with not using your child to test theories. I would see if you can find a quiet loving home for Lucy and stick with the animals you have that are use to the chaos of living with a youngster. I have a 3 year old poodle that can't handle kids, they move too fast for him and I have to watch him closely around kids, even dog savy kids... She is use to an old routine with an adult, that needs to be respected. I also recently adopted a 14.5 yr old poodle who loves teenagers, then again her previous owner was a teenager, she is happy to have someone who is a bit more laid back now, but when she sees a teen she runs after them barking in excitement, tail wagging. Sometimes I think I am too old for her.

Having taken Lucy, you became responsible for her. She became your pet, part of your family. If she cannot stay in your home because of the child, it is en%%bent on you to make sure that she finds a suitable home. Help from a rescue group is fine, as long as you take ultimate responsibility for ensuring that she is placed with the right family. A return to a shelter would be horrific for Lucy

A think that a two year old is probably too young to learn to respect a dog, although a family who lives near me had two Russian wolfhounds with small children. The hounds had a section of the house where the children were not permitted. That way if the children were bothering the hounds, the hounds could retreat. Another family I know had a mixed breed pitbull/dalmation mix that did not relate well with their new child. They found an older couple with a large yard and no children who wanted a middle-aged trained dog. It was a perfect match - the couple and the dog quickly bonded and are living happily together.

You know Lucy best and if you feel that she cannot be trained to co-exist with the child, then she needs a new home - for her sake as well as for your child's. Just remember - she is not responsible for the present situation and it will be very traumatic for her to leave you, more so because she was a rescue. So I think you will feel much better if you do everything possible to ease her transition to another loving home.


Good luck.

Daisy's mommy

As far as Lucy is concerned, your daughter is at the bottom of the pack. Whether you can train Lucy to understand Lucy is at the bottom of the pack is a challenge. It's hard for an old dog to start a new life, and if she isn't familiar with children, you can't expect her to be safe around your daughter. (this is true for every animal who doesn't understand kids - kids are just inferior dogs to them).
Putting your child in danger is not an option. You wouldn't leave knives within reach with the hope she doesn't reach for one.
Not every pet adoption works out. She needs a quieter home with older people - for her sake and your daughter's. Keeping her puts her in risk of doing some serious damage to your daughter and needing to be euthanized. Work with a rescue group. Someone will be able to foster her and find her a more suitable living situation to live out her golden years.
It's not your fault. Life just doesn't always work out the way you plan it.

Thank you all for your replies.

Birdiemom,
you said just what I needed to hear, although you seem to have a pretty good understanding of Lucy's needs and of the situation I'm in since you yourself have taken in older dogs that are 'set in their ways'.

Daisy's mommy,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to this dilemma. Please know that I would NEVER take any animal to a shelter for ANY reason...EVER!! That is something you will never have to worry about with me! Heck, I jumped through hoops to get her out of the shelter!! I also want to remind everyone that I didn't adopt Lucy, I agreed to foster her through a rescue group, so she wasn't ever brought in with the intentions of making her my pet or part of the family, that is what fostering is all about, a temporary living stop on the way to a forever home....I was hoping, however, that maybe she could just live out her days here....unfortunately this has been shown to not be a good idea. I would never release her back into the rescue group if I didn't think they would do the best thing for her. I am already struggling with what she will be thinking when she is taken off to yet another place, but I did the best I could by just getting her out of that shelter....or maybe not.

Megsmom,
Thank you so much for your understanding of the situation. I saw in your previous posts that you are a vet tech...so am I...so maybe we just have a better understanding of animal behavior and that it isn't always the best thing to conform an animal to our surroundings instead of placing the animal in a more suitable surrounding for its personality. Some people have a hard time seeing things from the animals point of view. I just think it is too much to ask of Lucy to have to learn to live in such an environment when it is obviously very uncomfortable for her here. I would also like to say how sorry I am that you lost your baby so young to something you couldn't control...a helplessness that I couldn't imagine. (There is actually a Boston at our shelter right now and when I saw him I thought of you. I'm sure he will get adopted...most of the 'purebreeds' usually do.) I love your baby's picture...what a sweet face...it makes me want one of those 'excessively' wet Boston smooches!!
Thanks to you all,
Kim

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, a foster animal is a temporarily placed pet who will go to a home where her habits and likes and dislikes are well known by you and the rescue group, so while I understand your guilt, you have done a noble thing, and will be able to share what you've learned with Lucy's eventual permanent home. I think a separation between your daughter and the dog is a good idea whenever possible - most old dogs have their quirks and strong preferences, and depending on how they were raised food issues can be a big problem, and one to pass on to the rescue group.

Please don't think less of yourself for not keeping her permanently. You did save her from a sad and lonely death, and gave her a new chance. In the end, that's what you should focus on. You have your hands full anyway - having to play referee between a child and dog is, I think, a little too much. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don't - we never really know, do we, what is for sure in life? You do know you saved Lucy, and that makes you a heroine in my eyes.

Barbara,
God bless you for your kind and understanding words, your posts are always so inspiring. My husband is constantly reminding me that Lucy was a 'foster' that wasn't intended to stay here permanently anyway, and that I am being way to hard on myself. This ordeal has been such an emotional roller coaster for me and your post brought tears to my eyes. I'm so relieved that you still feel like I have done a good thing for Lucy even if she can't stay here with us. The rescue group is extremely greatful that I was willing to take Lucy in without knowing anything about her, and as you said, it will give her a much better chance of finding a permanent home now that they know about her personality. Animals are much more likely to have a forever home when their behaviors are known, so as to not place them in an environment (like the one here with us) where they aren't comfortable. They know what specific type of environment to look for now, so it will keep her from being passed from place to place...the thought of her being shuffled around is just terrible to me. They also said that they will keep me posted on her progress as they require their adopters to allow home visits in order to check up on them. I just hope she is able to find happiness through all of this...
Love,
Kim

I guess its more or less been said that Lucy is probably trying to find her place in the pack.

An alpha dog would get to eat first and then would leave what is left for the rest of the pack. if you could get your daughter to eat a biscuit but make it look like it came from out of Lucys bowl, its one way of making Lucy understand that your daughter is alpha and not to be challanged.

ALL of you eat first making it look like its from her bowl, then give her the bowl to eat what is left.

There is a wonderfull book on the market ill look up what its called and let you know.

Your daughter is very precious and must be protected at all costs.

The problem wiht rehousing Lucy is what if she is being walked past a child eating an ice cream or a child visits the house of the new owners.

I dont envy you, this would be the hardest decision to have to make, if you are happy that you did all you could then im sorry but my decision would be to have her put to sleep at least it would be by the vet and not gassed.

The Dog Listener

by Jan ferrel

try the link above, hope its of some help.

good luck.

Love Sue

Sue,
Thank you so much for your reply, your desire to help, and your honesty. I know I feel like I have done everything I can, or everything I am willing, to do for Lucy. I can't say that there aren't things that might be able to fix the situation, but they would include using my daughter as 'bait', and risking further injury to her, and I'm not willing to do that for even my own life. At some point we would have to introduce them back together to see if the 'training' had worked, and if it hadn't, and my daughter was injured....I just can't take that chance. The lady (Cathy) that I have been dealing with through all of this (she is a volunteer with the rescue) actually mentioned the option of euthanasia to me, but since I feel like it is only a dominance/protective aggression issue, and one that deals (as it seems) only with children, I am really hoping that she can still find a home where she can be happy, and everyone still be safe. The rescue said that they felt like they could still place her, that her chances were fair of finding just that type of home, and of course the new owner would be well aware of the situation and know to confine her if they were to have small children come to visit. Otherwise, I really don't think she would be a problem.....maybe I am just kidding myself because I want so badly for her to find a great place to live out her days, maybe I feel guilty because it can't be here with me....

For those of us who consider our pets to be members of the family, the thought of killing them for any other reason than they are terminally ill and in pain is unthinkable. Sometimes, like family members with issues, they may not be able to remain in our homes, but we make every provision of them without thought of the difficulty involved. A friend of mine could not keep her beautiful Golden Retriever for various reasons. It took great effort, but working with rescue groups and on her own, she eventually found an older widow with a nice yard, who was happy to have the company of a loving dog.

Likewise, there is no reason why a suitable home cannot be found for a dog like Lucy, who is a loving, faithful pet, who simply can't be with small children. A home with an older childless couple or single person would be perfect. She might even be alright in a home with older children, over the age of 12 or so. It is not her fault that a baby entered the home and certainly not a reason to end her life.

Killing a healthy animal to me is murder. I am sorry if this sounds strong, but I feel very strongly about it.

Daisy's Mommy

Daisy's mommmy,
I am one of those people who consider my pets part of the family, otherwise I would have never found LS to begin with. And even though I agree that I don't want Lucy to lose her life, and I am trying my best to prevent it, it is a possibility that she faces, not because of me, but because of the terrible people that dumped her in the shelter. There are millions of healthy animals that are 'murdered' each year because there just aren't enough homes for them all. I got Lucy out at the last minute ( as she was scheduled to be killed the next day) , but I can only do so much...I just can't save them all. The rescue feels this way as well. No one is considering euthanasia at this point and won't unless she enters a state of suffering ( her arthritis is quite severe) before she is placed in a permanent home. I just want to give a reminder that it has only been a couple of weeks since we pulled Lucy from the shelter and that she entered the childs home, not the other way around. When we brought Lucy home, it wasn't ever intended as a permanent situation, we only served as a last ditch effort to try and save her from a horrible death...we didn't have time to work out any of the details with her temperment or other issues so we knew we may be taking on a very dificult animal to place in a permanent home, but we had to at least try. I agree with Sue when she says that if Lucy must be euthanized, it is much better to go by injection with loving people by her side than to be thrown in a gas chamber to choke to death. Either way, her sitution has been made better regardless of what the future holds for her.
I agree completely, so it doesn't sound strong to me at all. I only wish there were more people out there who were willing to act on these feelings and also foster animals in need to give them a better chance for life. It may not always end up like we want it to, but at least it's a chance for them...that's a heck of a lot better than no chance at all.
Kim