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 Please Help Me Help My Friend. |
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 Oct 2 2006, 11:15 AM
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#1
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 Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 4 Joined: 27-September 06 Member No.: 2,124  |
My friend recently put her dog to sleep and is feeling terrible guilt. Her little boy was a rescue with a history of abuse. He was never the friendliest of dogs to strangers, but in the last few years he had started losing his sight and had become much worse, biting anyone who came near. My friend is a widow and her little dog wouldn't allow any visitors in her house. He had even started to nip at her.
Two weeks ago some old friends were coming for a visit and she took her boy to the vet to make sure it would be okay to board him while they were there. The vet told her things were only going to get worse and he recommended she have her doggy put to sleep. She went along with his advice and now is consumed with guilt. She says he wasn't really sick, just old and grouchy. How do I help her? He was isolating her from her friends and I don't feel he was having a quality life anymore. Can anyone tell me how to comfort her? |
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Oct 2 2006, 11:31 AM
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#2
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 Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 294 Joined: 29-July 06 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,899 |
It's very nice of you to care and look for help for your friend. You sound like a great friend to have. You can assure her that no vet would recommend that you put an animal to sleep unless it was absolutely necessary and there was no way to improve the pets' quality of life. Vets are animal lovers too.
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Oct 2 2006, 11:59 AM
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#3
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 Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 130 Joined: 25-July 06 Member No.: 1,881 |
Susan I agree you are a really good friend to be worried re your widow friend. As was said by Simba"s dad the vet sure this was the right thing for her pet. For her to have to live in fear that her pet may bite someone and it was cutting her off from people and beginning to bite her too. I know we all are against putting an animal to sleep unless it is the best for the animal. It sounds like her dog was old and blind and probably a fear biter and with the pets blindness and age probably would not be able to respond to therapy. Susan just continue to be there for her and I am sure she feel so alone now that her companion is gone. Guilt is the common thread that binds all of us but time does lessen that.
Raggs mom Joanne -------------------- RAGGS MILLER 12-6-1990-7-5-2006
GONE PHYSICALLY BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART. HTPP://WWW.IN-MEMORY-OF-PETS.COM #TR61122 |
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Oct 2 2006, 04:12 PM
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#4
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 4 Joined: 27-September 06 Member No.: 2,124 |
Thank you both for your kind responses. How generous you all are to take the time during your own grief to help others. I was looking at this site because I lost my sweet Bichon, Molly, on September 18th. The stories of your own losses have helped me so much, but I didn't know what to say to my friend who was feeling so much guilt. Thank you.
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Oct 2 2006, 04:52 PM
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#5
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 130 Joined: 25-July 06 Member No.: 1,881 |
SUSAN MOLLY'S MOM, I AM SO SORRY ABOUT THE LOSS OF YOUR BICHON MOLLY. AS YOU CAN SEE RAGGS WAS A BICHON ALSO. YOU ARE SUCH A BRAVE ONE ONLY MENTIONING THE LOSS OF YOUR FRIENDS BABY AND NOT YOUR OWN. IT HAS BEEN A SHORT WHILE. HOW OLD WAS MOLLY? MY RAGGS WAS THE SWEETEST MOST PERFECT DOG (OF COURSE IAM HIS MOM) WELL ANYWAY I AM SORRY. PLEASE SEND PICTURES IF YOU CAN.
RAGGS MOM jOANNE -------------------- RAGGS MILLER 12-6-1990-7-5-2006
GONE PHYSICALLY BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART. HTPP://WWW.IN-MEMORY-OF-PETS.COM #TR61122 |
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Oct 4 2006, 08:56 PM
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#6
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 334 Joined: 2-April 06 Member No.: 1,515 |
Don't read this if you are sensitive, since I disagree with what happened to this dog
Simba's Daddy said You can assure her that no vet would recommend that you put an animal to sleep unless it was absolutely necessary and there was no way to improve the pets' quality of life. Vets are animal lovers too. Would that this were true for all vets. Like everyone else, some vets are good and moral, others are not. Don't quote me to your friend because it will make her feel worse, but I would like to express my opinion on this topic that comes up from time to time. No dog should be killed because it is old and grouchy, but not sick. I believe strongly that we should apply the same standards when decided to end our pets lives as we would use when making the decision for our own lives. People with terminal illnesses who are in pain may want to die. Pets in this situation probably feel the same way. People who are old and grouchy generally want to stay around and would appreciate loving care, as opposed to a quick end for the convenience of others. Daisy's Mommyt |
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Oct 4 2006, 10:43 PM
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#7
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 479 Joined: 13-December 05 Member No.: 1,278 |
I generally don't like to stick my neck out and come down on one side or another, so I'll stick to the middle with my - admittedly uncalled for - opinion.
I think without knowing all the health history of this dog it's hard to decide one way or another if having him pts was best for him or not. In the depths of grief and confusion, which we all feel when we go to the vet with a sick or maybe not sick pet, it's not so hard to confuse opinions, medical advice, etc. When my 83-year-old mom goes to her doctor, I've learned to always accompany her cause while she nods and tells the doctor she understands, I'm not sure she really always does, cause I have to kind of "translate" for her afterwards. No one wants to admit to not understanding what's being said, but I've worked with some people as a nurse, especially, who don't understand or maybe don't want to - and I've done that myself with some of my own pets as well, so age really isn't a factor in this, so please don't think I'm being ageist about this. Maybe there were other options for this dog, maybe not - I can understand in a way being scared of having a friend bitten for whatever reason, legal issues being among them. (I come from a family that had a very bitter 4-year legal battle occur which almost killed my mom and I'm pretty sure helped kill my stepdad, so I'm kinda sensitive to that). There is plenty of heartbreak here to go around, and no easy answers, from what I can read. I try not to pass judgement on folks - I believe judgement is best left to a greater power. We're all here in grief and tragedy, and I personally wouldn't want to see that - I don't know - threatened or lost in any way. We've all -okay, I've - made decisions in my life which I will never cease to question and never even think about except in my darkest moments when I feel the need to beat myself up severely over something. That's my 2 cents worth. Friendship and solidarity among us has kept me going in times when I thought I'd lose it emotionally, and I value that so much, I can't even tell you in words. |
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Oct 5 2006, 01:26 PM
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#8
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 130 Joined: 25-July 06 Member No.: 1,881 |
5CATSMOM: AMEN TO WHAT YOU WROTE.
JOANNE RAGGS MOM -------------------- RAGGS MILLER 12-6-1990-7-5-2006
GONE PHYSICALLY BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART. HTPP://WWW.IN-MEMORY-OF-PETS.COM #TR61122 |
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Oct 7 2006, 09:13 AM
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#9
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 4 Joined: 27-September 06 Member No.: 2,124 |
Again, thank you all for taking the time to answer.
To Daisy's Mom--and I am asking this sincerely--what should one do with an older dog, almost blind that is so fearful he will try to bite anyone? I know my local senior dog rescue wouldn't have him. What would be a good solution for the dog? I am truly asking because I can't think of a single thing my friend could have done. She spent 10 years nursing a dying husband, seldom leaving the house. After his death, she took in this rescue dog and gave him a loving home for five years. How much of her life should she be expected to sacrifice for her dog? I understand your feelings about euthanizing a dog for convenience--I think all of us here agree to that. What would you have done? 5catsmom-for some reason I can't open the link to your mail. Please try again. Susan |
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Oct 7 2006, 12:16 PM
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#10
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 Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 463 Joined: 19-May 05 Member No.: 892 |
Okay, I haven't put my 2 cents in as of yet, but I now see that Susan was upset by Daisy's mom's reply, so now I feel the need to.... Susan, Please believe me when I say that your friend should not have any feelings of guilt about her choice to euthanize her dog. She rescued what is considered an 'unadoptable' dog and gave him 5 years of love and security with her, and with his personality (from the very start) that would be very difficult for him to have found....in other words, single adult homes with no children or other animals are nearly impossible to find for animals like this, so he would have likely been killed years ago without her gracious heart (this I know because I have worked in animal rescue for years!) [quote] I understand your feelings about euthanizing a dog for convenience--I think all of us here agree to that. What would you have done? How much of her life should she be expected to sacrifice for her dog |
When we bring an animal into our lives as part of our permanent family, it is our responsibility to sacrifice as much of our lives as is necessary to fulfill that 'contract' we made with them when we brought them home. However, I don't think that this was the case with your friends dog, and that your words may be being taken out of context. This was not a 'convenience killing'. This dog was old, blind, and obviously very afraid and unhappy...that is no life for this dog. Your friend did what was best for her dog, and obviously your friends vet saw that this dogs life was no longer a good one. Regardless of what Daisy's mom says, I have a hard time believing that any vet would ever be like 'ya know what, lets just kill the grumpy #%*@!' There may be a vet like that somewhere in this world, but I just don't see that this was the case here. I assume she had probably used this vet since she got the dog, and her vet probably knew that she would have a hard time making that decision (since she hadn't already) without his advice on the subject, (I also speak from experience on that end since I have several years, and three different clinics, of vet tech work under my belt!)
As for Daisy's mom's reply...disregard it. Ya know, I have sat back and watched her judgemental and critical replies pop up time after time and I am personally getting pretty tired of them....so know that it isn't just you She has even replied in that same manner to me, which is rediculous considering my life is dedicated soley to saving animals (in all aspects) and education of the importance of spay/neuter, adoption, and fostering. She doesn't even have a pet at this time..says it's because her child is to young to respect one, which I can understand....but then wants to bash everyone else who is at least trying to make a difference in an animals life. In her mind, if you can't do everything perfect, then you shouldn't have one. While that would be wonderful in a 'perfect world', we don't live in one. I agree that when you bring an animal into your home, obviously they should be taken great care of, but in a world where animals are dying by the millions in our shelters each year, any animal that is taken from that environment and shown love and kindness for any length of time before his/her end comes is lucky. I assure you these homeless babies would be extremely happy with far less than perfection! They just want to know what it's like to be loved. Maybe Daisy's mom should spend less time preaching and making people feel like crap and more time volunteering at her local kill shelter....maybe then she would be more appreciative of people who are willing to stick their necks out to at least give an unwanted animal a home it would otherwise have never known! That's a heck of a lot more than she's doing!! This board is to support people who are suffering from the pain of a devestating loss. They don't come here for a lecture or to be made to feel worse...which she seems to find some kind of pleasure in. I'm sorry to use your post as my source to vent, but I am just getting tired of seeing her pour salt in others wounds time after time after time.
One last note....
[quote]People who are old and grouchy generally want to stay around and would appreciate loving care, as opposed to a quick end for the convenience of others.
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As for Daisy's mom's reply...disregard it. Ya know, I have sat back and watched her judgemental and critical replies pop up time after time and I am personally getting pretty tired of them....so know that it isn't just you She has even replied in that same manner to me, which is rediculous considering my life is dedicated soley to saving animals (in all aspects) and education of the importance of spay/neuter, adoption, and fostering. She doesn't even have a pet at this time..says it's because her child is to young to respect one, which I can understand....but then wants to bash everyone else who is at least trying to make a difference in an animals life. In her mind, if you can't do everything perfect, then you shouldn't have one. While that would be wonderful in a 'perfect world', we don't live in one. I agree that when you bring an animal into your home, obviously they should be taken great care of, but in a world where animals are dying by the millions in our shelters each year, any animal that is taken from that environment and shown love and kindness for any length of time before his/her end comes is lucky. I assure you these homeless babies would be extremely happy with far less than perfection! They just want to know what it's like to be loved. Maybe Daisy's mom should spend less time preaching and making people feel like crap and more time volunteering at her local kill shelter....maybe then she would be more appreciative of people who are willing to stick their necks out to at least give an unwanted animal a home it would otherwise have never known! That's a heck of a lot more than she's doing!! This board is to support people who are suffering from the pain of a devestating loss. They don't come here for a lecture or to be made to feel worse...which she seems to find some kind of pleasure in. I'm sorry to use your post as my source to vent, but I am just getting tired of seeing her pour salt in others wounds time after time after time.
One last note....
[quote]People who are old and grouchy generally want to stay around and would appreciate loving care, as opposed to a quick end for the convenience of others.
I have zero fear of death...I actually embrace the idea when my time comes...so for me personally, when I get old and grouchy (as the grouchiness usually comes from a general unhappiness) I would much rather pass on where I can enter into my eternal life in Heaven and be free from all my earthly ailments. Just another point that Daisy's mom's opinion is just that...an opinion...don't let it get to you!
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http://www.in-memory-of-pets.com/personalt...te.php?ID=49686
http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html
http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html
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Oct 7 2006, 01:57 PM
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#11
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 334 Joined: 2-April 06 Member No.: 1,515 |
To Kim,
Your personal attack on me was quite surprising. I must say that you are so filled with venom, that I feel sorry for you. Susan's response to my opinion was polite, thoughtful questions. What could be done? Were there alternatives? Your response was an ugly attack on me. I will respond to some of your points. 1) You have no idea what I have done in the past or do now to help in local animal affairs, both at local shelters and for abused farm animals. Your statement that I do nothing is not only presumptuous, it is wrong. 2) If you read my postings, you would see I am supportive of those who have lost a dear friend, even when it is through their own carelessness. I have received many thanks for my support. I, however, feel strongly that only terminally ill pets who are in pain should be euthanized. Pets should not be killed because they are difficult or inconvenient. That is my opinion, and I like to express it in the hopes that it may help some people decide to try alternatives other than killing a living being. If even one person seeks training instead of death then I feel that expressing my opinion was well worth it. 3) In fact in this posting, I made a point to tell Susan not to express my opinion to her friend because the deed was already done and I saw no reason to make her feel worse.. "Don't quote me to your friend because it will make her feel worse, but I would like to express my opinion on this topic that comes up from time to time." 4) You should think about whether it is really you who "seems to find some kind of pleasure" in hurting others. Your statement that I "do not even have a pet" at this time, is cruel and insensitive. If you have read my postings, you would know that I do not have one because my beloved Yorkie passed away on April 1. So. to taunt me for not having a pet, when I lost my dear friend and baby of 12 years is not a very kind thing to do. Many people do not get new dogs right away for lots of reasons. I have decided, responsibly I believe, to not get a new dog until my son is no longer a toddler. Again, I am sorry for you. You must be a very unhappy person to write as you did. Daisy's Mommy |
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Oct 7 2006, 03:31 PM
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#12
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 463 Joined: 19-May 05 Member No.: 892 |
Although I don't want to turn this into a forum of debate, I will counter your response. Firstly, please do not for a moment feel sorry for me. I have a most wonderful life! I am very happily married to a Doctor of Pharmacy, I have a beautiful home on 10 acres, I am currently a stay-at home-mom of a beautiful 2 year old, and I have more wonderful friends than I can count (most of whom, and my husband included, say my best personal attribute is my deep compassion for humans and animals alike), so the one and only thing that could make me any more happy (or blessed) than I already am would be to have my Sasha back![quote]1) You have no idea what I have done in the past or do now to help in local animal affairs, both at local shelters and for abused farm animals. Your statement that I do nothing is not only presumptuous, it is wrong. |
I don't recall saying 'you do nothing' ...as you stated, how do I know? I believe my statements referring to that subject were[quote]Maybe Daisy's mom should spend less time preaching and making people feel like crap and more time volunteering at her local kill shelter....maybe then she would be more appreciative of people who are willing to stick their necks out to at least give an unwanted animal a home it would otherwise have never known! That's a heck of a lot more than she's doing!!
Although donations and other aspects are helpful and much needed, the true heros of the animal world are those who are willing to actually get their hands dirty...bring them home and give them what they really need...love. My statement was intended just as it was worded....until you get your hands dirty, don't preach to others about how to do the job! [quote]2) If you read my postings, you would see I am supportive of those who have lost a dear friend, even when it is through their own carelessness. I have received many thanks for my support. I, however, feel strongly that only terminally ill pets who are in pain should be euthanized. Pets should not be killed because they are difficult or inconvenient. That is my opinion, and I like to express it in the hopes that it may help some people decide to try alternatives other than killing a living being. If even one person seeks training instead of death then I feel that expressing my opinion was well worth it.
Your postings are nothing more than an attack wrapped in a poor attempt of making them sound as PC as possible! You try to word it so you don't look like a bad guy, but people and their raw hearts aren't blind to your intent![quote]3) In fact in this posting, I made a point to tell Susan not to express my opinion to her friend because the deed was already done and I saw no reason to make her feel worse.. "Don't quote me to your friend because it will make her feel worse, but I would like to express my opinion on this topic that comes up from time to time."
Again, this was just another way to make it look like you were trying to spare someones feelings...Susan, with this being a dear friends emotions involved, was clearly hurt by your statement.[quote]4) You should think about whether it is really you who "seems to find some kind of pleasure" in hurting others. Your statement that I "do not even have a pet" at this time, is cruel and insensitive. If you have read my postings, you would know that I do not have one because my beloved Yorkie passed away on April 1. So. to taunt me for not having a pet, when I lost my dear friend and baby of 12 years is not a very kind thing to do. Many people do not get new dogs right away for lots of reasons. I have decided, responsibly I believe, to not get a new dog until my son is no longer a toddler.
again, my actual statement was[quote]She doesn't even have a pet at this time..says it's because her child is to young to respect one, which I can understand....but then wants to bash everyone else who is at least trying to make a difference in an animals life.
This has nothing to do with your choice of not getting another pet, you have twisted my words. Your choice to bring another pet into your home is a personal decision, that statement ,which I feel was pretty clear, was simply referring to how you are so quick to judge everyone else when they have at least done that animal a favor by letting them know love! Your choice to not have a pet at this time is your choice, and one that is respected, but don't be critical of others who have decided to save a life when it doesn't turn out to suit you. It's real easy to sit back and tell everyone else how it should be done while you are free from the responsibility of it, meanwhile hundreds of thousands of animals continue to die daily because there just aren't enough people willing (or ready) to get their hands dirty![quote]You should think about whether it is really you who "seems to find some kind of pleasure" in hurting others.
I won't even humor this ignorant statement....[quote]Again, I am sorry for you. You must be a very unhappy person to write as you did.
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Nope, not me....I'm happy as a lark 
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You know as well as I do that your replies will cause people further anguish when they read them, yet you post them anyways. People may show appreciation for your replies, but they aren't strangers to being PC either. I assure you, you have caused a lot of pain. I have had to try my best to heal a many a heart (via e-mail and PM's) that have suffered by your replies.
I would also like to add that I will not put any more energy into this subject. I have said all I need to say....
!You know as well as I do that your replies will cause people further anguish when they read them, yet you post them anyways. People may show appreciation for your replies, but they aren't strangers to being PC either. I assure you, you have caused a lot of pain. I have had to try my best to heal a many a heart (via e-mail and PM's) that have suffered by your replies.
I would also like to add that I will not put any more energy into this subject. I have said all I need to say....
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http://www.in-memory-of-pets.com/personalt...te.php?ID=49686
http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html
http://www.indigo.org/rainbowbridge_ver2.html
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Oct 7 2006, 04:34 PM
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#13
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 130 Joined: 25-July 06 Member No.: 1,881 |
The point of this site is to make people feel better. I know when I came here I was looking for some ease of the pain of my loss. No one would take the time to come here if we did not love animals. I personally had a bad situation having a poodle euthanized for some severe agression and neurological problems. My heart was broken when the outside of the dog looks great but he was a danger to my family and others. As one person said on this site that a animal rescue place would not take the agressive dog that agression is not cured and usually helped in a small way. My point each case is diffrent and we are here to offer our words and best wishes and just hearing what others have gone thru really helps.
Susan's friend needed consoling because I can tell you she is hurting. Raggs Mom Joanne -------------------- RAGGS MILLER 12-6-1990-7-5-2006
GONE PHYSICALLY BUT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE IN MY HEART. HTPP://WWW.IN-MEMORY-OF-PETS.COM #TR61122 |
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Oct 7 2006, 05:30 PM
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#14
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Group: Pet Lovers Posts: 334 Joined: 2-April 06 Member No.: 1,515 |
Kim,
I'm glad that you responded in the hostile, nasty manner in which did. You just emphasized my point. You are unique in your hostility and venom on this site. I do not intend to read any of your postings in the future nor respond to you in any way. If your name appears in a thread, I will just skip over your section. Please do not respond to any of my postings on any topic, if you can restrain yourself. I am surprised that I have to do this on this site, but your continuing attack of me leaves me no option. For the record - I have volunteered for years hands on in our local shelter and have worked, hands on, with abused farm animals. For anyone who is interested, look at my postings on any topic except euthanasia of healthy pets and see if I am trying to be truly suportive of those in grief. Kim, you are an unhappy, hostile person, who deserves pity. You have mine. Daisy's Mommy . |
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Oct 7 2006, 07:14 PM
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#15
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 Forum Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 1,073 Joined: 3-March 03 From: Midwest USA Member No.: 1 |
differences in opinion always reign in with this and other sensitive topics.
with that said, this post has been closed. --------------------  |