Well, I'm glad that you're not part of the flooding, anyway. Phew!

It's too bad that the ex is so close that it's all too easy to run into him around there, but it's good that you're not letting him fool you anymore. As you said,
How could someone ever forget those kinds of choices?! To trust (him) again, after that kind of behaviour and action would be incredibly difficult, if not impossible.

The thing about dream interpretation is that it's so personal to the one dreaming it. One therapist I worked with for a time, although well-versed in dream symbology, preferred to do it a more personal way, that being taking what YOU thought any particular item or person represented to you, and working out the meaning from those things.

So I can only give you my own impression of what the I.D. and such might mean....w/o even looking anything up in dream symbol books. My first impression of "I.D" is that it could easily relate to one's identity....and however all-encompassing or less your ideas of what "identity" are, on whatever level(s). And for a "credit", to me that speaks of something that will or can be used to redeem something in the future. And "food", to me, could be related to 'feeding' oneself...whatever level that might be on, e.g. mental, emotional, spiritual, etc.

So off the top of my head, it could have something to do with seeing yourself (&/or other players around you, which I'm sure you know represent yourself anyway, and keeping in mind we're all linked in the greater picture) differently, and knowing that you may need to 'feed' yourself in various ways before you can either 'find' or rediscover or just BE yourself again in the future. And the "lost dog" could easily just be representing your feelings of being 'lost'. But, that's just MY impression and could be totally off-base.

I also can't believe your ex is going to England on YOUR dime!! May I say?.....what an A**!!! Talk about taking advantage!! UGH! NO integrity there!

And as I'm replying, I see you've now posted again today, so lemme read that through.....

Yah, I think I know what you're talking about with that one. It's another one of those paradoxes. Where do I leave off and 'another' begins? And how do our different vibrations mesh and produce whatever manifests? I wish I had THE ONE answer for you, but I don't, at least not yet. Having said that, I do believe we bring certain things at certain vibrations into our lives, at whatever level we're at. But there are certain parameters to how this actually works, in detail.

Having ALSO just seen Dr. Dyer's new film on Fri. (huh! ), I recall he said he doesn't believe we call forth what we want but what we ARE (at any moment in time). I assume he's talking about our level of vibration and all that inherently entails. So I assume this is why so many 'lightworkers', in their various modalities, focus on going deeper into yourself, to discover WHY you're attracting what you are, or what an injury or illness is there for, what it's trying to tell you, what it needs to resolve, for your sake. We can only work on ourselves, first, and let that effect ripple outwards to the world around us.

But how exactly this translates into having relationships you don't want to be as they are.....well, I think it's quite complicated. But as I'd mentioned to you once before, as a possibility, perhaps you simply grew MUCH faster than these partners did, and so things HAD to shift......all, ultimately for your own highest good, even though you have to go through the horrible pain of their endings.

I dunno. Maybe this still makes no sense to you. I can only hope some part of it might, to help you get through it all. It still seems that many, many people have been going through all sorts of garbage heaps this last year. I could tell you stories just as bad, if not worse, than your own..... But in the end, so sadly, everyone still has to go through their own, with others trying to help as best they can. And I wish I could help even more, with those BIG answers.....I've asked myself many of the same questions you're asking yourself, but it's been a slow go through the years, so all I can leave you with for now are MORE BIG HUGS!!!

I could never trust him again. I don't even know who he is. Sadly I still remember what I "thought" he was and I have huge grief missing that person, even if he was actually a fictional character. This house is so full of "him" and I could barely stand it over the last couple of days, maybe this is coupled with January being a tough month anyway for lots of people.

I think what you said about ID makes that dream even more clear to me. I was looking at this "lost dog" - this man, x-h who everyone called a husky, but I could clearly see was a sheltie, a different and much smaller dog. What people were saying he was and what he actually was did not jive. Checking the ID, was about me trying to find out who he really was - wanting to look deeper into his soul. But I couldn't find out, because as Toonie said "he didn't want me to know his name". Maybe I was just there to feed him, or nurture him, but not to actually know him. I hope the credits also represents some kind of karmic credits to me for going through this... don't know how it all works but I sure hate to think this was all for nothing.




I guess what makes sense to me is that we also call forth what we are in relation to what others are. So if I am pushing for truth and pushing for growth, and "other" is not wanting to take responsibility then this would create a division between us. If I had accepted things as is, which would also reflect who I "was", then maybe there would be a different outcome. Or perhaps if the person I was had had the energy / ability to reach soul to soul with x-sd, who was the main conflict, then another outcome might have been possible. That makes me feel very sad. I really thought I had more time with her. Under the extreme duress of our life the last 3 years that would have been very difficult for me.

I really liked the film - what did you think? Wayne Dyer has such a nice energy and fully admits having been motivated by ego in his past. He really represents another role model for me of how I'd like to be in the world.

My biggest regret is that with all the grief and difficulties that I never got to spend time working on a relationship with x-sd. I know she didn't like me from day one, and x-h didn't support me in a parent role with her - kinda the reverse actually. He wanted her to tell me what to do and show me how to do things. So maybe it would have been impossible to achieve the relationship I wanted with her without his support. It's all the same "what ifs" that of course I'll never find out about now.

I do miss the man I thought x-h was, I truly miss this fictitious person, strange as it sounds, to the bottom of my soul. In the meantime he has demonstrated fully that he doesn't care (or maybe isn't capable of caring) about my well being one iota. So the reality and the illusion of a man who would have protected and cared for me do not match.



Thanks for the hugs. I really feel alone here. I am finding it so isolated and quiet. At least I am finally able to get out more. I wish I could just beam myself into another life and another existence, full of peace and happiness. But here I am.

Jan.

Yah, I know that feeling. It was the same with my own ex, who was, as I used to put it, fabulous when he was being 'good', and horrible when he was being 'bad'. I adored his 'good' side, and loathed his 'bad' side. And of course you don't know who he is - he never let you see who he really was....and I'll bet even he doesn't know who he really is, either. Or just can't admit to himself who he really is. (this is all on strictly a "personality/ego" level only, naturally)

As painful as so many things are in this life, I honestly don't think anything is ever for nothing. What things are for, however, can take quite awhile for us to see. And some things we may never really 'get.' But alot of it we do, if we're steadfast in looking.

But you couldn't have accepted things the way they were, and only on someone else's terms, I don't think.....at least not unless you'd already been far advanced enough to not be in ego most of the time.....a worthwhile goal but not where most people are as yet. So I wouldn't beat myself up over that aspect, if you can help it. Don't forget, part of our inner turmoil results from not accepting how and where we just ARE at present (or in the recent past).

You know, though....if, when you're feeling a bit more steady, you're still feeling badly about the step-daughter, there's always the option of writing her a letter, whether you ever actually send it to her or not. Even if you just get your frustrations and thoughts out on paper, that might help. Lots of people do this and then burn the letter, symbolically letting the matter go. (but if you send it, you'd best be diplomatic and not have resentments seething forth ) It's good, regardless, that you're letting yourself experience more facets of your feelings about your relationship with her. You need to purge whatever you can, out, one way or another. So good for you!

I thought it was fairly good, but not great, even though I really like Dyer's works. I'm still trying to get a better SENSE of what it would really be like to just "let LIFE play YOU." *sigh* I think I have a long way to go yet to get to THAT mode of being! But I loved his St. Francis miracle story....and was VERY happy that it revolved around St. Francis himself! I also really liked that study with the lists/men's & women's values changing after a "quantum moment." But.....I'm just longing for that moment ITSELF! I seem to be hovering somewhere in the middle of the women's list, even w/o having had one yet. Strange.

Yes, HERE YOU ARE, JUST THE WAY YOU ARE RIGHT NOW. That reminds me of the book, "Wherever You Go, There You Are," by Jon Kabat Zinn. And you know how 'they' all say that your life could BE full of that peace and happiness if you'll just CHOOSE that instead, right NOW.....but as with so many of these things, WAY easier said than done for most of us!

I know it must be SO hard to not have another to be with now, when you feel you need someone the most...just like it is when a loved one transitions. Divorce isn't that much different and often doesn't feel ANY different in some ways. Sometimes it's better to be alone with YOURSELF, though, because at least you know YOU'LL never leave yourself, while you can be in a whole group of people and still feel totally alone. Do you have any friends there who've offered to let you call them even if it's in the middle of the night? If you do, then take them up on that offer if you need to!

I'd like to write more, but my computer's really mucking up on me here and I need to get to bed pretty soon. Do me a favour, if you would, though - give yourself a little massage or loving strokes tonight before you go to sleep. You owe it to yourself to show yourself how lovable you always were and still are, and this honestly does manage to help with that. Night-night. Will chat later, Jan.......((((((hugs from a friend!!!!))))

I guess I also have to remember what x-h is showing me about himself also - such an ugly side of him. Would I ever want someone who could actually do what he's done to me? I *never* thought he was capable of being such an ugly human being. I you'd asked me in August, could x-h do this? Never! I thought at most we might need to have some space from each other and work on some issues. That he would choose his dead previous wife over me and let his daughter take over from where she left off - well the whole thing just seems so unbelievable... x-sd feels happy and in control right now, but I fear for her safety. I think the two of them are deeply insecure and the relationship is just not healthy, especially with what it had taught x-sd. I guess x-h's love for me was superficial right from the beginning. I was deceived.



I did this already. It was quite a long letter, telling her that I wished I'd had more time with her. I was going to give it to her, then spoke to the counsellor and decided against it. The counsellor pointed out that the letter could make her feel like she was in the middle or it could also be seen as me trying to manipulate things. So I didn't and guess I will never send it. I did give her a Christmas card saying that caring and wanting the “best” for someone doesn’t always come across in ways you might expect, and wishing her all the best in her new life with her dad. But in lots of ways she did manipulate things too - she worked and worked on her dad about leaving and then finally he did.



I'm not sure exactly what he meant there but I think it's about working with what "is", and being in touch with the soul rather than the ego. I think we have to start by knowing what we want...

>And you know how 'they' all say that your life could BE full of that peace and happiness if you'll just CHOOSE that instead, >right NOW.....but as with so many of these things, WAY easier said than done for most of us!

Yes, but also living in your head, or running away from difficult feelings instead of listening to heart leads to disconnection to the soul. So if the heart feels pain, it's important to let that move through. This is different than repeating something in your head over and over again to cause more pain. It's just accepting the pain of loss. It's important to know the difference between avoiding pain, and feeling peace. True peace comes from true honesty, and true honesty comes from acceptance of all the feelings within.


>I know it must be SO hard to not have another to be with now, when you feel you need someone the most...just like it is >when a loved one transitions. Divorce isn't that much different and often doesn't feel ANY different in some ways. >Sometimes it's better to be alone with YOURSELF, though, because at least you know YOU'LL never leave yourself, while >you can be in a whole group of people and still feel totally alone. Do you have any friends there who've offered to let >you .call them even if it's in the middle of the night? If you do, then take them up on that offer if you need to!

I have been on the phone a lot with friends. People haven't been able to come here because of the snow and the lack of parking and lack of a driveway. But it is just starting to melt now. Weird but last night I dreamed that x-h was ignoring me as I trudged through the snow. I kept saying I hate you over and over (that wounded child in me again). Then somehow I was in x-h's new home with x-sd. Both ignored me and carried on. I said some things to him, can't remember what, but they were hurt and angry. The last thing I said was "You're probably going to die."

Sure don't know what that means but it's occurred to me that that's where x-h is headed. I just don't know.

>Do me a favour, if you would, though - give yourself a little massage or loving strokes tonight before you go to sleep. You >owe it to yourself to show yourself how lovable you always were and still are, and this honestly does manage to help with >that. Night-night. Will chat later, Jan.......((((((hugs from a friend!!!!)))

Yes, someone once told me that when you are feeling really alone, you can give yourself a hug. My little Asha baby girl comes to me when I'm upset (which is lots lately) and does her little clown act and snuggles in really hard. She is so sweet - I'm sure Merlin sent her to me, since she has his "M' stamped on her white forehead - with the two peaks.

I hope I will have healing dreams tonight and wishing the same to all who is reading this.

good night.

Jan.

I was just thinking about this idea of grief and how I don't want to add to it by "horror" thoughts and yet how I don't want to deny grief either, since denying it, or burying it doesn't allow it to move through.

I looked up Eckhart Tolle and grief and found this Q&A. Hope it helps someone else also. I think what it teaches me is that acceptance is purely acceptance of what "is" however that feels. Acceptance seems to be about allowing life in it's fullest and not creating more misery or wanting to make something what it isn't. It is living fully in the moment without our thoughts controlling the outcome... something like that anyway. Here it is...

Question:
It is grief I would like you to talk on some more. I have “Even the Sun Will Die” and get it about form, just having lost 3 family members. Even when watching my mind, and feeling some peace, tears just come like a tidal wave. Then there is a hole, I sit with it, but all the spiritual teaching in the world does not seem to allow relief from grief. It is as if as a human form you have only one way and that is through; I noticed feelings of guilt for the feelings, but even surrender doesn’t seem to help... for want of trying to communicate my question much is lost... Grief seems separate to me, from all other emotions we experience and can have some effect on anger, self pity ect.?
.
Answer:
If you surrender to what you are feeling (and not feed the feeling with your thoughts, with stories), grief will burn up the ego and then show you its other face, which is peace or even joy. Joy is the dynamic aspect of peace. But don’t expect to obtain anything through surrender.
You say, “even surrender doesn’t seem to help”. As long as surrender is a means to an end (help, relief etc.), it is not complete surrender. There is an expectation. In true surrender, you ask for nothing, expect nothing. You simply embrace what is. Another way of putting it: you suffer consciously. Blessings on your journey.

Another link to Eckart Tolle on the "pain body"

http://www.spinninglobe.net/chapter2now.htm

Q. The present moment is sometimes unacceptable, unpleasant, or awful.

A. It is as it is. Observe how the mind labels it and how this labeling process, this continuous sitting in judgment, creates pain and unhappiness. By watching the mechanics of the mind, you step out of its resistance patterns, and you can then allow the present moment to be. This will give you a taste of the state of inner freedom from external conditions, the state of true inner peace. Then see what happens, and take action if necessary or possible.

Accept - then act. Whatever the present moment contains, accept it as if you had chosen it. Always work with it, not against it. Make it your friend and ally, not your enemy. This will miraculously transform your whole life.
****



It seems that the key to moving through pain is acceptance and surrender to "what is", and not judging or creating more from it.
Here is another quote from Tolle:

"Sustained conscious attention severs the link between the pain-body and your thought processes and brings about the process of transmutation. It is as if the pain becomes fuel for the flame of your consciousness, which then burns more brightly as a result. This is the esoteric meaning of the ancient art of alchemy the transmutation of base metal into gold, of suffering into consciousness. The split within is healed, and you become whole again. Your responsibility then is not to create further pain."

Maybe this is what Kahlil Gibran is talking about when he says joy and pain are inseparable.


**********

wow Jan what a fascinating couple of threads you brought us here, what growth you are going through, thanks so much, just too overwhelmed to comment for now but thanks for feeding our souls with this

I remember reading most of these Tolle teachings at some point, and had also begun reading/rereading his last 2 books last spring, trying to glean some answers for my own pain. (don't really like his description of the "pain-body" as an actual entity, though; gives me the creeps and increases my fear! ) Never finished them, as I find his writing quite 'dry' and I also keep wondering if he'd say anything different if HE lost a child himself.....waiting on that book, by ANY of these teachers. I also remember intuitively doing this, at least to some degree, when I was grieving about Sabin years ago, before I even knew about any such teachings. And it did help some.....watching myself from within, sitting in my grief feelings, and allowing them to be as they were. That process came about from my anger and frustration with society's non-acceptance of my grief. I got fed up with their resistance and decided to allow myself to feel whatever the heck I was gonna feel, darn it, for as LONG as I was going to feel it, and to heck with everyone else! This is also why I say it's NOT "selfish" to grieve. It is simply necessary (and healthier) to go through the process.

However, I still find it awfully difficult many times to not marry thoughts/thinking with the feelings, as they're so intertwined with each other, and that's where I'd get stuck or lost with his teachings. But I also think what Tolle says is likely pretty much the same thing that Dyer promotes, i.e. about letting life play you, or 'going with the flow' of what is.

On the other hand, a heck of a lot of people DO find relief, and usually permanent relief, in such practices as EFT, TAT, SRT, etc., where you, granted, DO allow acceptance of yourself and your feelings and even sit in them a bit, but the AIM of these therapies is still to find relief, so they are still a means to an end. They seem to work well, too, even though in that sense they fly in the face of that one part of Tolle's teachings. For example, EFT uses the "acceptance" statement of "Even though....(whatever the problem is).....I deeply and completely love and accept myself," but you still KNOW that its aim is to relieve the 'problem'.

And as I'm sure you're aware of, this is a rather opposite approach to the human condition than, say, the Abraham/Hicks, Hathors, Kryon, etc. approaches/advice.

Another approach that many healers are now taking is to work from within the BODY instead, where you end up being able to sort of circu*mnavigate within yet around your "stories" and get more directly to the feelings (or the physical maladies), the reason they're there, and therefore beyond them and into healing on a cellular level (which of course encompasses your wholeness - mind, body, spirit).

And another thing I puzzle over with Tolle's approach is that many other teachers believe that the mind, and even the ego, are NOT our 'enemies', per se, to peace, as some seem to espouse, but are also, inclusively and equally as God-given as anything else we're endowed with, and serve specific purposes - we're just using them wrongly, erroneously or...hmmm...whatever term you could possibly apply if there is zero "judgment" about anything!

Then my head starts to hurt from all the puzzling over which one to practice with! However, these kinds of teachings are also why I often say it's productive to just allow your feelings of grief, even IF you're ultimately or eventually wanting to find some relief from them.

Another way to enter into something closer to real surrender is to try asking yourself......can I accept or give myself permission to allow, for now, the possibility that I'll ALWAYS feel as I do right now? That way, even if you are, deep down, wanting to keep the pain on some level, at the same time you're also accepting that you're wanting that, instead of continually fighting yourself.

As always and with anything, there are many paths, all of which can lead to fullness or wholeness or whatever you want to call it, but we each have to find the one, or ones, that work for US at any given time. And ironically, sometimes, when I'm even fatigued with searching and sifting through the whole morass of approaches, that's when I find some nuggets of healing, or just being.

But I always find it terribly ironic that in order to get beyond using the mind alone or too much, we have to use our minds to think about and collate all these ideas FIRST! (another reason I don't see the mind as something to totally 'get over' or reject out of hand)

I'd meant to comment on this, too.......or is it MORE than this? You might want to take a peek at these 2 sites:
I'm Home; A Dog's Never Ending Love Story and Pet Past Lives & Reincarnation - Brent Atwater's blog

I just met with a healer colleague yesterday who told me all about her recent experiences between her and her "spirit & soul" cat whom she'd just had to euthanise not long ago. (and oh, were they ever WILD!) She's either got him back already, OR she thinks it may instead be her cat's Twin Flame, come to be in place already FOR her cat (to reunite with, as well as with her) when HE reincarnates back to her w/i a few months....as he'd said he was going to do.

Once she became privy to the soul-level information/experience from and with her cat (when he was on his way to dying, and brought about by the type of healing modality she and I do now), she was then even able to feel that this cat had been with her several times already in this lifetime....and that these cycles together would NEVER be ending.

Jan---------

Tolle, Dyer, 'Deep Pockets' Chopra et al........all regurgitators of re-packaged Eastern thought.I have been reading this imported pyschobabble since the 70's.
The only western thinker I have come across who has really lived what he preaches is Ram Dass.

Get a copy of his lecture of "Seasons of Our Lives" (1980's)---------Cuts to the chase and will save you LOTSSSSSS of money........

The current writers are wannabes of Ram Dass and want to seperate you from your money.......Ram Dass has given away all his money that he made through the years via books,lectures and tapes and now he is handicapped because of a stroke and lives modestly in Hawaii through donations and volunteer aides.

Google him at youtube to see and hear his history.............This lecture "The Seasons of Our Lives" ..........Kept me from commiting suicide when I was in DEEP personal turmoil 25 years ago while a student in Boston.............I AM NOT KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRUST ME................


I KNOW THE KIND OF SHI* YOU ARE IN AT THE MOMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



My favorite pyschobabble line I read in the early 70's,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,OVER&%^YSIS LEADS TO PARALYSIS!!!!!!!!!!

Bubba........................

The censors got me in the above sentence, I will re-spell it Phoenetically-------- O-VUR-AH-NAL-IH-SIS

Hi F's Mom

Here is another quote I found from Kahlil Gibran:

"Say not, 'I have found the truth,' but rather, 'I have found a truth.' "

Tolle's quotes strike a chord for me because it is about acceptance of "what is". If I allow the shoulda, coulda, woulda stuff to run over and over in my head it creates more pain. The less I think about those things I have no control over, the less pain I create for myself. I don't believe there is "right" and "wrong". Even the idea of "karma" is sometimes used to judge people. It's just cause and effect, and maybe life lessons. Regardless of why things happen, we are where we are. If we consciously accept pain, rather than fight it, or deny it, or "medicate it", it seems to flow more easily and create room for other feelings like love and joy.

I love the idea that this acceptance could actually create a sense of peace... I have not experienced this myself yet, but I have heard of this not just from Tolle, but also from Gordon Smith, who is one of my great role models.

Gordon Smith had one of those epiphony moments of feeling complete oneness with everything during a time of intense pain. He is an amazing psychic and medium but he said this experience was more miraculous than anything else he'd experienced in his life.

I think it also has to do with that deep soul connection where we stay connected to our purpose rather than staying in our heads, but not connecting to our hearts...

Jan.

That's neat the dog had a "B" monogrammed on its hip!

I know Asha isn't Merlin, but I had a couple of interesting experiences that make me feeling Merlin "met" Asha.

One was a very vivid dream. I saw Merlin, could smell him touch him, feel him and I turned to tell H who said he'd had the same experience with his previous wife. (which he had told me he had experienced one time) When I turned around Merline was gone, but Asha was in his place.

Then a woman is who a medium was doing a demonstration and I got called up to the front. She said she saw a new young dog in my life, a "puppy". Asha is very puppy like and is totally the baby of all my dogs. She said that she saw her piddling on the floor. Because Asha is very fearful of strangers, she will sometimes do that if she gets scared of someone new. She then said there was another dog with the letter M that was Asha's "mentor" of sorts. It took a minute before I realized that what she was saying fit exactly with my dream.

Jan.

BOTTOM LINE.................

The pain dosen't end till we do................Sorry..........

We are all in this together.........
Bubba...............

Hi Bubba - a friend of mine were talking about some of the popular new age philosophers, especially those who talk about abundance, and laughed that if we just came up with the same best selling books, we'd be where they were!

Actually it's funny but I read Wayne Dyer's first two books and liked them (years ago) then after that they were not so much of interest to me. It's interesting that in his new film he talks about that time period as being quite caught up in his own ego, so it's interesting that's exactly when I stopped reading his stuff. But I do like his current film.

I see truth in what Tolle says in those quotes. Worded simply it is acceptance vs resistance. For example, I make my pain worse if I were to think certain non-productive thoughts like thinking "hmmm wonder what x-h and x-sd are doing today" or with Ziggy, I sometimes relive the moment of her death in my head which is very, very painful. Or I imagine Zita's demise in all sorts of damaging and horrible ways. Sometimes those thoughts come up randomly, then I just have to let them move through, but if I unconsciously play those "videos" or what he calls "stories" over and over in my head, well I think I would just go insane.

I am trying to find ways of feeling, consciously, whatever comes up, instead of playing hurtful damaging tapes in my head that only do more damage. It doesn't mean those hurtful images don't come up, but that whatever pain I feel, if I just allow it, I think that will help it to flow through.

It gives me hope to think that the pain has a purpose and can "transmute" to peace and wholeness. That is my goal.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Jan.

Ahem--------Never forget Ziggy or Zita.........Save for a few exceptional humans in our lives................Screw the rest of em!!!!!!!!........OTHER HUMANS ARE NOT GODS AND ARE JUST AS UNIMPORTANT AS WE ARE!!!!!!!


Ya wanna know the meaning of life? simple..........:

There is no meaning!!!!!!!!!!

Your born........you live..........you work..............you die..........buh bye.........

It 's just grist for the mill.............take care of number 1...........You..........NOBODY ELSE WILL..........
Bubba..........

Most people are LIARS!!!!!!!!!!! I have lived and worked ALL over the world and no matter what people look like or sound like it is ALL THE SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Make your own self-esteem.It cannot be purchased at Borders books..............

Bubba,

I like Ram Dass, too, over some others, but I also like Chopra, who is, after all, Eastern himself in his roots. I don't think he, at any rate, is really trying to deceive anybody, but is, as he's been 'hailed', just trying to interpret for us more 'modern-day' folks, the older philosophies that he believes in, and is also coupling them with the newer quantum sciences, which helps many folks like me. In fact, that's something I've been waiting to see ever since I was a kid and instinctively just KNEW that somehow, some way, one day science would be able to be married with spirituality and it would all make more sense. (but we're not done with this, and likely will never really be, even in the other realms, as change/movement is part of the Universe, always)

What do you think of Paramhansa Yogananda? (Autobiography of a Yogi)

I also don't begrudge anyone making a living out of such pursuits. It is, after all, up to us as to whether or not we spend our own money on whatever, including (or not) current, mainstream professionals and their goods. Many of our beliefs about money are also, by themselves, the proverbial "root of all evil," and need to change as well. These other kinds of things are less negative in my mind than making one's money pillaging the earth, to which we're also totally connected & depend upon for earthly life. Hey, if someone wanted to pay ME to blather on about whatever, I'd just accept that with glee!

I'll have to check out the particular Ram Dass book (and lecture) you recommended, as I haven't read an awful lot of his stuff. (one book, forget the ti*tle now, was so incomprehensible to me, I gave it away)

There's a line in A Course In Miracles that you might really like - "You need do nothing." In many ways, I think that may be the best advice of all, IF you can manage it. It would be wonderful to not feel the urge to have to keep searching.....

Jan,

Loved your accounts of things that happened around Merlin! It's all these little pieces of what Jennifer McLaine calls our lives as "big, juicy adventures" that enrich and support us even as we move through pain. She also has a saying that I think helps at times. When something, anything upsetting occurs (although she DID allow that physical death of a loved one was a real 'toughie' to apply her methodologies to too soon), she's now fond of saying "Well...that's interesting." This helps to remove some of the usual judgments we apply to things. (she's also had a heckuva hard history, or "story", so I find her more believable than some)

And yes, similarly to you and your friend, as we were watching Wayne's movie, me and the H were also chuckling to each other about things like.....why did he have to make this movie anyway? Is he running out of money at his home in Maui or something? Sometimes you just have to chuckle wryly about things.

I think you've got a very good handle on how to work with your feelings, btw!

Furkidlets Mom--------The Course in Miracles line is the home run:At some point we must live.
You are right Chopra is From the East.Perfect marketing.People in the West love this stuff.......

I do not in any way at all mean to be direspectful but people in my age group (baby boomers) need to,after all these years of trying to 'find 'the answer from other humans, stand up,shake off the dust, quit being victims, TURN OFF OPRAH, and think for themselves.

TIME IS SHORT...........PAIN IS PART OF THE PROGRAM..........

I still miss my boy Willy like you can't believe and am in Hell everyday..........If my wife dies before me I will REALLY REALLY be in Hell everyday.........

There is nothing to be done about it.............It comes and goes...........

I have not read the autobiography you mentioned but will google it and order a copy.

One of the simplest books I ever read as a kid was Siddhartha.A great primer for all things Eastern.................As we GRIND on....

Peace, Bubba...............

But, Bubba, we can make meaning... if we want to. And I want to.

I luv ya Bubba, and I relate to the feeling about humans - look who I ended up attached to after all? A guy who threw me away like trash! But I realize in painful times of my past there was also learning and progression that took place. You know that song? "We're here for a good time, not a long time." Actually Bubba, here's the song, dedicated to you and your good old spirit boy Willy! And you can sing along, lyrics included!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qFIaI1M5kU




I totally agree - but, also don't discount all those books.... I say read the books, or don't, but stay open - and then decide what feels right to you.

Jan.

Thanks - I'm working on it, quite intensely actually!!

Non-judgment, that's another concept that fits with "acceptance". For example, if I think I am bad for feeling pain, or start feeling "guilty" for my thoughts... well that doesn't help either. I think what's hard for people going through grief is when some people judge your pain instead of supporting or empathizing. I'm just trying not to think all those "terror" thoughts that make everything even worse.

On the other hand we can't just be "shiny, happy people" the way some books make out, and I think that's what Bubba is getting at. Although I'd sure like to be laughing and finding joy a lot more in my life... so I have to think that's still to come!

take care

Jan

Yep----------Good tune and to the point............Be leery of the snakeoil salesmen.They have traded their horse drawn medicine shows for book-bulging coffee shops and the internet.Pseudo intellectuals prey on the hurting.Theories weaved of whole-cloth abound.Discernment and cynicism are your TRUE friends..........
Bubba................