Please Keep Your Cats Inside!, danger to outdoor cats Options

[gillian]

Interesting thoughts Toonie; here in Ireland it is so uncommon to keep your cat indoors that I don't know anyone who does. It's just the norm to place a catflap on your back door, and allow your cat to live a full, free life. Even our vets just assume our cats are kept outdoors. And most rescue centres here refuse to rehome cats if they are going to be kept indoors. 85% of British and Irish cats are kept outdoors, and the few that are kept indoors are mainly purebreds.

As for your 5 plan policy, very interesting! And it makes sense, but admittedly if I couldn't keep my cats outdoors, I wouldn't keep cats, as I firmly believe that they should be allowed to live free.

Similar to it being dangerous to put an indoor cat outside, then I believe it is equally cruel to bring an outdoor cat indoors for the rest of it's life.

So, with that in mind, if my cats went blind or deaf, and so couldn't live outdoors any longer, I would probably euthanise them, as they would be miserable being kept indoors, and I would feel guilty, having removed their freedom, which they had been used to.

In Bono's last weeks I was fretting over whether to euthanise him or not, as his vet had told me that I'd no longer be able to take him for walks, as his heart couldn't cope with the exercise, and that he couldn't even roam round our garden for more than 10 minutes a day, as his heart couldn't cope with either the exercise or even the excitement of new scents etc. I couldn't bear to keep my dog locked indoors for the rest of his life, but he passed away before I had to make that decision. I don't see how it would be any different for a cat which got sick or developed a disability which meant it could no longer go outdoors.

Although evidently some people do, and although I don't understand those viewpoints, I do understand that people particularly on this board always strive to do what they feel is best for their animals, and I respect that difference of opinion.

[Jon730]

Why my cats are indoors. Your local conditions may be different.

Most of our cats have been "Used Cats", either from rescue place or rescued ourselves.
As such, they were used to the Outdoors. However, as time went on, and they became loved and fed, they became less fixated about getting out. We did, years ago, have a massive Prison Break, and are still not sure how it happened. We looked out the back slider and saw ALL our indoor cats pacing back and forth along the railing, taunting us.
Another, my Bombay Cat Merlin, used to delight in waiting for rainy dark nights, and then bolt out between our feet, and hide in the edge of the woods. I would then have to stand outside looking foolish to the neighbors, sweeping a falshlight beam around till his gloating eyes lit up. THEN according to him, I would have to meow "MERRRRRRLLLE" a dozen times, before he would graciously surrender.

HOWEVER: Times have changed.

COYOTES:

I am in Southeastern Massachusetts, and to everyone's surprise, the coyotes have returned. Sad "Missing Cat" posters appear in supermarkets and stapled to telephone poles. People come around door to door looking for their cat.
What do I tell them?
I WANT to shout, "He's been EATEN you damned idiot! Can't you get someone to READ THE PAPERS to you??"
If they live that close to me, they can HEAR the coyotes howling at night!!
What does it take to get their attention, a baseball bat???

CAT FLAPS.

Racoons are geniuses. One friend discovered while he was on vacation that the local Racoon Family had been studying the Cat Door. They disovered they could take the Lazy Susan cabinet and SPIN IT like a merry-go-round, and jars of things like spaghetti sauce, peanut butter, and rasberyy jam would fly around the room, shatter, and produce a smorgasbord.
(Raccons also discovered my Koi pond, and one night declared a Seafood Festival.)

GUNS:

Massachusetts has strict firearms laws , so we do not see much of that stuff, though I know of one dog that had a BB embedded courtesy of a local Bad Kid.
Someone who shoots a domestic animal here will no longer have guns.
Someone who shoots one of mine will wish they still did.

[Jon730]

That's why I never judge indoors or outdoors even though I see others have done so before in the forum. I also read where their cats were killed by other animals and again I don't say keep them inside. It is up to the owner. I wouldn't want anyone telling me what is best for my babies. I am comfortable with the choices I have made.

Yes, I need to clarify my previous post. I was upset when I typed it because my neighbor's Russian Blue is gone, and I am still mourning for Miles.

Until the coyotes came, all my early cats enjoyed the outdoors. One good thing about it is that they left the indoor plants alone!

It is so terribly upsetting to me that the Animal Conrol People as well as local pet people put up all the warnings about coyotes, and everyone just does not care.

We cannot get people to listen.

Times change, and a once safe area can become very dangerous in a couple of short years.
I would LOVE to have my cats outside here because the bird feeders attract mice..Nature's Favorite Cat Toy.
But after the last few years of trying and trying to get people to listen, then seeing heartbroken children and parents going around the neighborhood looking for their cat or small dog it is just so exasperating at the sensless loss of lives of innocent friends!
There is simply no reason for it! These are people's FRIENDS who live in their HOMES. Would they let their babies sleep out in the yard what with the coyotes, or, a few years ago, the racoon rabies epidemic we had???

**SIGH**

[gillian]

What do I tell them?
I WANT to shout, "He's been EATEN you damned idiot! Can't you get someone to READ THE PAPERS to you??"
If they live that close to me, they can HEAR the coyotes howling at night!!
What does it take to get their attention, a baseball bat???

Jon, sorry to hear you're going through such a rough time. We don't have coyotes or racoons where I live, or rabies or the like. And as for guns, they are illegal where I am from, unless you are a licenced gun owner (a farmer perhaps)

So my cats are outdoor cats.

I think that's the point Toonie was trying to stress earlier; it's to do with location as much as it is anything else.

Of course you have a point with the coyotes, but for some people, the act of allowing their cat to live fully and freely is more important than keeping them 100% safe.

Animals in captivity (eg zoos) live longer than animals who live in the wild; this is common knowledge. But are they happier? I don't think so. Any animal would prefer to live in the wild rather than be kept in captivity; this includes cats. However, allowing them to live free is not without it's risks.

This is why keeping cats indoors or outdoors is a personal decision, and whilst we may give our own opinions on the matter, noone should be told what to do, or criticised for doing it, even people who live close to you.

Again, sorry about the loss of Miles, and I hope the Russian Blue returns.

[Jon730]

But even with regard to that, keeping cats indoors or outdoors is a personal decision, and whilst we may give our own opinions on the matter, noone should be told what to do, or criticised for doing it, even people who live close to you.

Yes, it should be up to the animal, really, but as "Parents"...well...
Living here for so long, and seeing so many animal friends go missing is just so frustrating. It is not that the people do not care for them-it is that they are in denial, and we (Pet People and the Town's Animal Officer)cannot get them to listen.

I think it is because so many people have moved here from the City. Almost every week, the police blotter has calls for "A big animal in the yard".
(It is usually a deer.)

We had one family buy a house. Their plumbing overflowed. They were furiously trying to call the Town Sewer Department.
We do not HAVE a sewer department!!!

Again, sorry about the loss of Miles, and I hope the Russian Blue returns.

That was what upset me the most. Around here, they do not usually return.
To add to it, I see a Northern Grey Fox slinking through the yard every sundown.
It is the only native canid that can climb trees.
So while a cat can scoot up a tree, if it is fast enough, it can elude the coyotes, but...
I am wondering if the people who move out of cities have a romanticized image of "Nature" and do not want to believe there is a food chain that can include Fluffy and Rover? We have lost dogs to these creatures, also.

This is why keeping cats indoors or outdoors is a personal decision, and whilst we may give our own opinions on the matter, noone should be told what to do, or criticised for doing it, even people who live close to you.

Yes, just like cats, I myself do not like being told what to do. I will continue to BEG them though!

[Bue's Mommy]

I'm replying to this thread because of Gillian's cat Sasha.

OMG, what a gorgeous girl, she is beautiful. You are so lucky to have her, I can tell by her eyes she is special.

All my cats are indoor critters, but in my defense, in the warm months, I go gather moths in tupperware. I bring them upstairs, and release them into the house.
Let the carnage begin, my cats kill every single one of them, within 5 mins. Its my way of keeping their killer instinct nice, and sharp.

Here is a pic of them doing their thing

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[goliath]

LOL BM Now that's hillarious!

[Jon730]

All my cats are indoor critters, but in my defense, in the warm months, I go gather moths in tupperware. I bring them upstairs, and release them into the house.

You make me feel like a Bad Father for never thinking of doing that!!!!!!
Of course! Bring the outdoors in.

Murphy was found living in a dumpster. She still savors flies.... ugh.

[Bue's Mommy]

Hi Jon730, so your baby likes the flys, ewwwwwwww LOL. I should not have watched the movie, I did not know flys threw-up on their food.

Seriously though, I try to replicate as much of the outside in my indoor space for the kitties. Having lots of plants help, especially when they don't chew on them.



"You make me feel like a Bad Father for never thinking of doing that!!!!!!"

LMAO, when I read that.

Take Care

P.S. your cat is stunning!

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[gillian]

Bue's Mommy, thanks for the post on Sasha. Yeah she's pretty. We rescued her when she was 8 months. She was seemingly another casulty of those people who buy kittens and then when the kitten turns to cat, it's goodbye cat. That's how Sasha ended up with us. Hehe Love the pic of your cats and the moths. Hehe!

My younger cat Darcey has a habit of bringing me 'gifts' - 2 nights ago it was a living mouse - Poor thing. She appeared with this wringling mouse in her mouth. Dropped it, and batted it to keep it from escaping. I tried to rescue it, but Darcey quickly grabbed it and shot off into the night with it. The following morning, she didn't seem that interested in her breakfast ... so I can only imagine what happened to the mouse. Oh well!

[toonie]

Bue's Mommy, you are a genius! Gathering moths to release them inside for your cats to catch. You are WONDERFUL! and UNIQUE!
Gillian, you are quite the animal lover. This whole conversation just goes to show that we are all different and in different situations. I found comfort that my little Felix got to roam this great big countryside (canadian); where we are, we see a real show of stars on each clear nights I'm sure he marvelled at this and all his other discoveries of the wonders of nature and how big the world is. Like Gillian's Sacha, my Felix would bring back mice but they were always missing their head so no chance to rescue these critters!. What Jon says about city people not knowing the country is very true. My gripe is with neighbours who let their dogs run free when they move to the country. They seem to think that they have found the lazyman's solution and can leave them free when they get back from work and the dog(s) will make their own exercise. I have been frustrated to see them chase our pregnant cows from the pastures and actually bite one on the leg! Some have aborted from being chased by dogs. I like to leave my hens free during the day and at have lost about a dozen over the last ten years,all of them to dogs even though we have foxes and coyotes and fisher cats here. When I tell the neighbours that their dog is causing us trouble their immediate reaction is to deny that their 'child' could have done so! So now my approach is to always have a loaded camera ready and that is proof enough so that they get fined. Usually after a first $50 then a second $100 they keep their dogs tied. We have a great dutiful/beautiful dog but she likes to stay close to us when we are inside so sometimes she can't chase the wandering dogs away. To me these bored neighbourhood dogs let loose are the worst threat to my cats because they are so bold and do not fear humans or other dogs at all whereas
the wild animals fear both the humans and my dogs' scent, even if she is inside . Each place is different. All I know is that here in the country, most of us have always allowed our cats out and so it was when I was a little girl and would visit my grandparent's farm.

[Jon730]

To me these bored neighbourhood dogs let loose are the worst threat to my cats because they are so bold and do not fear humans or other dogs at all whereas
the wild animals fear both the humans and my dogs' scent, even if she is inside .

We ive in a once rural town, but it has grown rapidly, due to the construction of places like "Pretentia Shores Executive Estates".
So not only do we have an influx of people who say, "The Script says we have to have a dog. OK, we have a dog. Now what do we do?", but some of the wildlife has become so used to people they no longer have any fear.

Thus, there are pictures in the local paper of coyotes walking down the SIDEWALK like they own it. Deer graze on the School lawns. Wild turkeys hold up traffic, as they wander around the middle of the road and forget where they are.

This sounds charming. When I first saw a deer in the yard I was thrilled. Then I discovered that if one has a vegetable garden, and has planted landscaping shrubbery, a deer is a 180 pound Garden SLUG. Because of all the new houses, there is no hunting.
Coyotes are protected. Racoons have no fear of people, and are nearly tame. Possums are so nearsighted that it does not matter-They just blunder around.
One night I heard something. I went around the house and starled something..it was a big skunk. I shouted and ran away, around the house. Unfortunately, the skunk was startled too, and HE ran around the other way and we met again out front. I am not sure how many orbits we made. My wife laughed her head off.

So this is what we have around here, and why at least where we live, the cats are stuck inside..

PS: No sign of Bubba, the neighbor's Russian Blue. I knew it.

[katzen11]

my sister has a wonderful spayed black cat, aged 14 years, his name is Attila.
she is living in a village of 1037 inhabitants, in a nice little house with a nice little garden. Attila has is own "cat-door", he is free to choose to leave or to come home.
the house is next to a school, so the cars are only allowed to drive very slow.
so my sister showed Attila to learn how to be safe.
there a no coyotes, or other enemies around, maybe a longtail weasel, nobody of those sick people have been there yet to deal with rat poison and so on, and no crazy hunters, so far.
Attila is the "boss" of the village, and living a just perfect catlife.

i am living with Jimmy in the city of about 1.7 million inhabitants.
my home has two rooms and each window has a fence.
i rescued Jim in november 1996, at the age of 14 months, he was living in a so much smaller cage, you know, in a shelter. Thank God, in my country, we do not have "kill-shelters", but there is still very much to do for our pets.
so, for Jim, there are no rules, he can do anything he wants, but he cannot go outside, because he would be killed by a car in a few minutes.
i feel sorry for him, because i can watch him sitting at the window, looking for the big and fat doves he would like so very much to deal with..
please, Jim, forgive me
but i need you so much,
and i am responsible for your security
i love you forever Jim
Eva

[LoveThem]

Eva,

There is never anything to forgive when you are receiving unconditional love and that is what you get from Jimmy. Sometimes to these babies the grass may look greener but they would rather be with us than anywhere else. I know what you mean about him looking out the window and I know what you mean about the dangers our cities have.
I see things happen in our streets and I can only be thankful one of mine is not lying there.

There are things in life like disease, etc that will eventually claim them one day and those are things we can not often prevent but I know I can prevent my special boy being hit by a car and other possible attacks here. We even have bobcats in the city.

So give Jimmy a hug and smile and know when your decision feels right to you, then it is the right decision for you and for Jimmy.

Hugs to you and Jimmy. I wish you many years of health and happiness together.

Judy

[Bue's Mommy]

Hi Gillian, I know the kind of people you're talking about. I think people like us were put here to counteract people like them.

I love the whole bringing mom home live gifts, lol. If you say the word bug in my house, my cats immediately look up at the ceiling for moths. Its gotten to the point that if I even point without saying the word, they look, lol.

Do you have anymore pics of Sasha, and Darcey, I would love to see them.

Talk to you soon

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[Bue's Mommy]

Hugz Toonie, I just try to think like them. They are so funny when they fly through the air trying to catch them. Puddin is my best bugger, hehe. If they are to high up, she will meow really sexy at them. Of course, when this does not work, I lift them up so they can get a crack at them, lol.

I haven't really gathered any moths since Bue died, he loved getting into the act too. I will gather them since spring is here, and take pics.

Wow, you have a farm that is so cool Toonie. I went to a fair once about 10 yrs ago, i never knew goats had horizontal pupils, it sorta freaked me out, lol. I really admire you, it seems like really hard work taking care of all the critters.

As far as being armed with your camera, good for you. When owners of animals have to start going into their pockets to pay for damage, then they start complying
Was your farm passed down, you mentioned your grandparents farm.

Do you have pics? I would love to see them

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[toonie]

HUGS Bue's Mommy for that crazy cat picture, makes my morning start on a real upbeat, just from the poster cat!!!!

Katzen:

please, Jim, forgive me
but i need you so much,
and i am responsible for your security
i love you forever Jim
Eva

Jim must be just so so happy that you rescued him, cats somehow know what a great thing happened to them and I'M sure that Jim still remembers how much he was lucky to be rescued by you. Like people cats are different. Of my two cats I had Felix who was always a nervous hyper gotta be doing something personality, of course the outdoors meant a lot to him. But my big lovable Yukon had a choice to go outside but by the time he was 7 he didn't much care to go out, he preferred to chill inside.
Only after he lost his brother did he insist on going out to search for him, he was half blind and half lame but he would go out in case he'd catch a glimpse of Felix. This was so so so so heartbreaking for me to see, I would follow him outside to make sure nothing happened to him but I couldn't give him back Felix, not ever. But had it not been for Felix, if Yukon had been an only cat, I think he would have always preferred to stay inside where he was safe and loved and to him, the inside was interesting enough. I know your Jimmy feels completely happy and so grateful that you cared enough to change his life to a much happier and freer one where he is now at home with you , I am sure of this!!!!

[gillian]

Bues Mommy, you were looking for more Pics of Sasha and Darcey. Here's a few -

Darcey playing with my dog - Nieko. She has no fear.

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[gillian]

Sasha dressed up for Christmas!

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[gillian]

Darcey taking on my 2 dogs - Nieko and Coveu. She is the oddest cat I've ever seen. Sasha is disgusted with her interacting with dogs.

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