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> Rohan Is Ill, bladder crystals
Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 2 2008, 02:10 AM
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Please keep a prayer for Rohan -- he's in the hospital.
Stable, should be okay, but he had crystals in his bladder that blocked his urethra, and he almost got to life-threatening stage before I realized. His bladder was about the size of a large apple, and at risk of rupture. This afternoon I saw him try to pee on my bed. I'd seen him pee on another rug a couple days ago, and knew that it was very odd, but the only logic I could put to it was a protest over litter boxes that need changing.

After I scooped him off the bed, he meowed in a very distressed way -- pain from being lifted on his abdomen, no doubt. Then he lay by the door and whimpered, so immediately I found a vet with extended hours and got him in. By the time we arrived, he was blocked and yet so full he was incontinent, just dribbling everywhere. If I'd waited until tomorrow morning he could have died.

I arrived thinking was constipated, fearful maybe a hairball obstruction. Ten minutes later she wants to get him out of the room and into the back to catheterize him NOW, while also quickly trying to get me up to speed on what's happening and how urgent it was. She quickly tried to outline the scope of what I was dealing with, and explain enough so that I can make informed decisions. Meanwhile, I know Roh is soooo afraid here, and first she says "heart murmur," and then I hear bladder blocked anesthesia crystals xrays cardio-myopathy stones surgery die hospital $1500 euthanasia. Flashing like red neon signs in my brain. I'm trying to track the details, but ohmigod she's saying Rohan is really sick, in dire distress and lots of pain, and what am I supposed to be looking at on this financial e$timate? Did I wait too long? What clues did I miss? How did I not know he was in pain? And why the hell did she bring up euthanasia? Is he really that sick he might die? Or is she just giving me a financial out? Finally I realized that's what she was doing, and I just looked her in the eye and said, "euthanasia's off the table."

Honestly, I don't know how parents leave their human children in the hospital. I feel like such a bad mama, leaving him all alone in a cage, catheterized and two IVs, terrified by the drugs and the procedures, and the cone he has to wear so he won't pull out the cath. They let me sit with him for a while, but then there was nothing to do but come home. Fortunately the vet tech who's on tonight will take phone calls so I can check on him through the night.

He's also got a heart murmur and possible cardiomyopathy, but we'll deal with that later.
He's only two years old.
I am really overwhelmed right now.
Just today I told someone I've been trying to shake a sense of doom. *pow* strikes again. Just a little left jab, but still enough to ding me.

So I just need to remind myself, he's doing okay right now. They were able to catheterize him with just sedation, not general anesthesia, to my great relief. His blood panel looks good, and he's not too dehydrated. They gave him pain meds, and flushed out the bladder. She said usually the urine has more of a sandy look to it, and his doesn't, which means he doesn't have nearly as many crystals, which bodes well. We talked a little about what I've been feeding them, and may have found a culprit. Typically, the treatment is a lifetime of very expensive food my other cats in the past have hated. Hopefully it has improved, or I have other options. I'm holding out a thread of hope that this was a one-time thing due to two months of cheap tuna fish cat food.

Kim
PS: I just called the vet tech, who said that he's settled a fair bit, especially after they blocked his view of the room with a towel, and that he was eating some. Luna and Willow are asking me questions.


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katzen11
post Aug 2 2008, 04:52 AM
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beautiful sweet little Rohan
i am thinking of you and your so concerned mama
i do hope, that you get better very soon
that`s a good sign, that you are already eating a little bit
all my best wishes
Eva


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goliath
post Aug 2 2008, 08:53 AM
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Dear Kimberly,

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Rohan during this troublesome time. Here's wishing Rohan a speedy recovery and a happy reunion soon with you and your other kittyloves, Luna & Willow. wub.gif

Hugs,
Beth


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LoveThem
post Aug 2 2008, 10:28 AM
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My prayers are with you and Rohan. 2 years old.....he just HAS to get better.

My only times with crystals and blocked bladder: My Little Girl: I noticed she was trying to pee but seemed disturbed. I noticed a blood spot on my beige carpet after she got up from lying on her stomach as cats do. I called the vet's office and they said to bring her in the next day. That if it was a boy cat..it was an emergency but a girl cat could wait until the next day. I did and she was given antibiotics for cystitis (if I remember right).

My Little Guy had blocks 2x in his 16 1/2 years. The reason boys are an emergency was explained that boys have a tiny uretha or bladder than a girl does and so crystals can more easily block them and they have to be brought in immediately.

I always had a lot of litter boxes available and where I sit at my desk I see 3...1 in a bedroom and 2 behind a couch. My Little Guy I would see would get in the box and squat to pee and then get out. Usually I would figure he went but then what he would do is keep walking from box to box, squatting, getting up, etc. Told me he was having a hard time so I called the vet (I called a mobile vet who came right out and flushed him out here at home). She had explained the problem. One other time he did the same thing and again she came out and flushed him and he was okay.

She explained to me it was cause he was eating dry food a lot which can cause crystals. Now my little girl and Little Guy's twin brother ate dry also. She had a problem one time but that apparently was a little different cause I remember she had cystitis and got antibiotics. Keeper, the twin, never had a problem.

But my boy, Little Guy did have it 2x and flushing him out took care of it right away at home. I don't know what would have been done if he had been further along.

I don't understand why flushing didn't bring Rohan back to normal if it is crystals. Anyway. my Little Guy never again had dry food and he never again had a problem. He had Friskies wet food and was fine...we also bought Science Diet Senior wet food..

My Little Guy never acted like he was in pain but maybe I caught it right away since he was in my line of sight while working at my desk. But what he was doing was not normal and I just always get on the phone and describe it to the gals at the vet hospital and I found they were good about...whether or come in right away or not. I had a mobile vet come out and she did immediately...cause Little Guy was a battle to get into a carrier and hated the vet place. This way I locked him in a bathroom and she went in and shut the door, put him in a zippered bag up to his neck and was able to put in an IV or whatever she needed to flush him out. So the next time he peed...it worked.

I am so sorry Rohan was in such distress and hope to hear good news from you soon.

Hugs and prayers wub.gif


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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 2 2008, 09:18 PM
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Visited my sick boy today.
Aside from the not-feeling-good, in pain, tubes everywhere part, it is SOOO stressful for him to be there. He's such a skittish cat, that every door opening, drawer slide, rustle of papers dilates his eyes full open. He's in total flight-or-fight adrenal mode, and it breaks my heart. He's never been taken anywhere before, so seeing me this morning was probably a huge relief that I didn't just leave him and his life as he knew it was over.

I brought him a blanket from home, with all the reassuring smells. He sniffed at it for a moment, recognizing it. I sat with him for an hour, hand on him the entire time. At first he purred and trembled, then the trembling calmed, and then finally his eyes dropped to half-mast (until the next door opened). I'm torn -- I want to go back and see him tonight, but it IS a 55-mile round-trip.

I spoke with the doc late this afternoon, and all signs are in the right direction. She cautioned that he has more hurdles to pass, "last night we had a cat with the same thing, and everything that could go wrong, did, so I don't yet want to say he's fine..." But with Roh, at least everything that could go right, has been.

The highlights:
- there's been no visible crystals in his urine today, and the bloody color is gone
- the crystals are calcium, not struvite
- his catheter comes out tonight, and then they'll watch to see if he continues to pass urine tomorrow
- his heart rate has normalized (last night it was 220 with pain and fear) (high calcium can slow the heart rate, so even when it was high last night that was sort of good news)
- his xrays showed no calcium stones in his kidneys, ureters, or bladder (big hooray) (that would have required surgery)
- his xrays shows a normal-size heart (they recommend an echocardiogram at his next physical)
- if he urinates tomorrow well, with no extra bleeding or pain, he gets to come home tomorrow night (mamasorelieved)

In the reflection on the wall, you can see his half-mast, miserable-resigned look on his face.
Poor baby. sad.gif(((
kimbermama

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LoveThem
post Aug 3 2008, 11:21 AM
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Poor baby. I pray he gets to come home all well asap.

You did list lots of good sounding things. I think your visit probably gave him some strength especially bringing that blanket
from home.

Please keep us updated.

Hugs and prayers wub.gif


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His story: Section D&D: How do I stop crying? and also... My Boy is Gone Forever.

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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 3 2008, 10:29 PM
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ROHAN'S HOME!!!
Oh yay......................{huge sigh of relief}

Luna says, "You smell bad and your mother dresses you funny."

He peed some, he pooped some, and he ate some.
He's purring, affectionate, tail high in the air.
Exhausted beyond words
(so am I for that matter)

They sent him home earlier than usual because he wasn't doing the basics (peeing, pooping, eating), just cowering tight as a little snare drum. Because peeing is so essential for him today, they wanted to get him quickly home so he could relax and go.

The second picture shows how tired he is -- the staff never saw him sleeping the entire 38 hours he was there.
Tomorrow I have lots to do, as I haven't been able to focus on a single other thing. But for now, there's relief and calm in my household.
Kimberly

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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 4 2008, 07:06 AM
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NOW what does THIS mean???!? After being up for an hour in the middle of the night, I headed back to bed to find Rohan had peed on it. When I first brought him home this morning, he was incontinent, due to having had the catheter, I had guessed. But the rest of the day he'd been fine, dutifully going in the litterboxes (I have four). One of the litterboxes is now in the bedroom, only 7 feet from where he was. so did he just get caught off-guard? Is he telling me something's wrong? (I finally clicked that something was wrong when I saw him squatting to pee on my bed on Friday: "Mama! Something's wrong with my pee-er! Fix it!")

He looks content, sitting in the living room grooming himself. I really don't think it was one of the other cats, although Willow is hiding under the bed. It was just a small spot, dilute, and with that same off-note as on the pads on the way home from the vet (the drugs they'd given him, I suppose).

I CAN'T have an incontinent cat! Or one that pees on on my bed! I'm trying not to freak out here -- anybody have a similar experience? Any men here been catheterized? Does it challenge continence for a little while afterward?


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Jon730
post Aug 4 2008, 08:05 AM
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So sorry he has been through this! My Sheva had this. Damned DRY FOOD.

Two things happen when a male is catheterized (Ouch, I know..)

The urethra is VERY irritated, and this causes an urge to urinate for several days from the burning sensation. I guess the body wants to flush out whatever it is. So swollen and inflamed is the urethra that patients will not be allowed to go home till they can pass urine, even if it is a Day Clinic proceedure. Despite efforts to make catheters smooth and even lubricious with additions like polyvinylpyrrolidone in the formulation, withdrawing them causes abrasions.
The tissues have been stretched and dilated, and the valve at the bladder has been held open for days as well. Muscle tone will return.

It does get better. Males in general are plagued with long urethras, (Not as long as they say they are...) but passing stones or crystals are much worse for males. It FEELS like Miles and Miles and Miles when it's going on.

My wife has a disease that produces constant kidney stones (RTA). As people know, they are terribly painful.
I am grateful that I had a kidney stone ONCE so I can understand what she is going through, but just as grateful I had one ONCE!!!

Canned food has ~70% water. Male cats should not get dry food. Cats can live on VERY liittle water, and we hear stories of cats being found in shipping containers for long periods that end up fine. But how this is done is that the kidneys reabsorb water to conserve it. When they do so, waste and mineral concentrations rise and rise. When the solubility limit of calcium and magnesium compounds is exceeded, they crystallize out as salts such as phosphates, urates, various amino acid salts, and oxalates. Normally, citrate is synthesized in the kidney, which chelates calcium compounds and keeps things clear, but high calcium concentrations can overwhelm this self-protective mechanism.


By feeding canned food, the cat is forced to have 70% water. With feeding dry food, the cat can be tricked by his tolerance for low water consumption.
Regardless of ash &%^ysis, no male cat of mine will ever get dry food again.

I have seen personal ads in local newpapers from heartbroken cat owners begging people not to feed males dry food.

Everyone, human or FuzzyFriend, should drinks lots of water. The urine must not be allowed to come out dark. Once one has a stone or two, they indelibly remember that!!!


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LoveThem
post Aug 4 2008, 12:12 PM
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I agree with Jon, after my Little Guy was stopped up 2x....and I was told by my Mobile Vet dry food can cause it..both males and my female ate only wet for the rest of their life and no one ever had the problem again. So I do hope your vet told you only wet food.
And if others are eating dry for any reason..don't let him near it. (I wondered about that picture you took showing a bowl of dry food in his cage...although it also looked like a bowl of wet was there also...but..like, Jon said...he must be very sore and maybe the pee burns and he looks for the softness of a bed instead of hard litter...that's why I thought of newspaper for a while...see below).
Then too, you said your other cat is hiding under the bed so you are not sure who is doing it. Maybe you might have to try some
room confinement until you can tell who it is? But I would call the vet anyway.

As far as the peeing...I didn't have to have anyone use a catheter but anything foreign introduced into one's system may cause unusual reactions. I would do 2 things:

1. I would call the vet's office and ask the vet to call me ....after all, you have paid for all of this treatment and I always felt until they are normal after coming home.....questions are still part of what is going on.... I would ask for his opinion. I am sure since they do these things a lot as part of their job...they must have heard all kinds of reactions and would have the best idea on what to watch for...or it may be normal for the first few days, etc. I would tap the vet's brain on this.

2. In case the litter is painful for any reason, I would have a litter box with newspapers and see if he will go there instead..and I would keep that one by the bed or wherever the problem comes up.

By the way, as I think of it..now with a computer...I would also google about "cat catheter" and see what has been said about this from others.

The vet should always be able to be the one to relieve your worry right away but trying the other things might not hurt.

Best Wishes

Rohan...hugs and GET WELL SWEETHEART! I'm glad you are home. wub.gif


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LITTLE GUY - May 28, 1991 - Sept 10, 2007 - Always in my Heart.
His story: Section D&D: How do I stop crying? and also... My Boy is Gone Forever.

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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 6 2008, 11:00 PM
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I think, I THINK, Rohan is finally in the clear. Had to take him back to the vet again today, he'd been in iso and not peed for about 36 hours. But he wasn't drinking much either. So, not peeing because he's empty? Or full and re-blocked? Vet said he was only half full, and really massaged things around trying to feel. "If he doesn't pee by this afternoon, bring him back and we'll cath him again." He must have heard, because when I got home, the pad in his carrier was soaking wet. Yay!! Ever since then he's been looking downright sparkly. He's been hungry (finally), is drinking water again (finally), grooming himself (finally). Part of me wants to put him in iso one more night so I can find treasure in the litterbox in the morning and know it's his, and part of me says he's fine and I need to stop communicating to him that he's a sick boy.

It was calcium crystals, not struvite, so it's probably not related to diet as much as pH. I thought about all the changes I'd been making in their diet over the last several months, with the end result that the moisture content was really reduced. And then I added a bucket-load of repeated stress with my absences. The last one, in June, was nearly a month. Way too long for all of us. Oh yeah, plus my stress of losing half my income and needing to create new work. ~~~~~Eager for a period of calm now. Kimberly


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Jon730
post Aug 7 2008, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE
It was calcium crystals, not struvite, so it's probably not related to diet as much as pH. I thought about all the changes I'd been making in their diet over the last several months, with the end result that the moisture content was really reduced. And then I added a bucket-load of repeated stress with my absences. The last one, in June, was nearly a month. Way too long for all of us. Oh yeah, plus my stress of losing half my income and needing to create new work. ~~~~~Eager for a period of calm now.


Good luck to you both. I am now self-employed and in the same fix, and customers are paying late. We also have a big metal "cat" in the garage that is turning into a money pit...so...No doubt my cats have things to pick upon as well.

"Calcium". is rather vague. Struvites only occur from infectious incidents. Sometimes after passing stones there is albumin present as a soft coagulate. Massaging him may have blown it out. Now if you can keep him hydrated he should be fine, everyone hopes!


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LoveThem
post Aug 7 2008, 11:37 AM
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Rohan: I KNEW you could do it!

Rohan's Mom: Much better news than last time. Sometimes it feels like it takes forever to get back to normal but it sure is worth it when it does. Love it when these babies perk up again.

prayers and best wishes to all of you. Keep the good news coming!



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LITTLE GUY - May 28, 1991 - Sept 10, 2007 - Always in my Heart.
His story: Section D&D: How do I stop crying? and also... My Boy is Gone Forever.

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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 7 2008, 08:16 PM
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the urinalysis showed "calcium oxalates." Both vets said that it's rarer, and the cause isn't as clear, except that stress can play a significant role. They both said that it doesn't relate much to diet, but more to pH of the urine. It seems to me that if diet can alter pH (since it can in humans, I'm guessing it can in cats as well), then as long as I can provide a diet aimed in the right pH direction, I shouldn't have to be stuck with this expensive, uggy prescription canned food, yes?

has anyone else had to deal with calcium oxalates in kitty pee? ~kim


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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 8 2008, 05:52 AM
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At 3:39a Luna woke me, pawing to 'cover' a spot Rohan peed on the bed. Now he's in the litterbox bathroom, straining, able to express just a little bit. Yesterday, he looked downright sparkly -- and I'd noticed this evening he didn't look as good. But good enough that I didn't send him to bed with pain meds and muscle relaxants. He's only partially blocked, but definitely full. He'd been drinking so well last night.

It's now 4am. Do I load him up right now, in the middle of the night to the scary and expensive ER, or do I wait 4 hours and get him in first thing to my regular, closer vet?

The voice in my head that says I'm going to lose him is getting louder....
kimberhorrifiedconfusedexhausted


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5catsmom
post Aug 8 2008, 06:02 AM
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QUOTE (Mink&WillowsMom @ Aug 7 2008, 09:16 PM) *
the urinalysis showed "calcium oxalates." Both vets said that it's rarer, and the cause isn't as clear, except that stress can play a significant role. They both said that it doesn't relate much to diet, but more to pH of the urine. It seems to me that if diet can alter pH (since it can in humans, I'm guessing it can in cats as well), then as long as I can provide a diet aimed in the right pH direction, I shouldn't have to be stuck with this expensive, uggy prescription canned food, yes?

has anyone else had to deal with calcium oxalates in kitty pee? ~kim



Hey, Kim, long time no kitty talk. Seriously, I do hope Rohan's doing better. I have such a thing for character cats who are cream tabbies. I wish I had advice for you, but I've sure learned a lot. Dry food has been a staple in our house for longer than I care to remember, I think now after all these stories, we'll have to switch to canned. I honestly had no idea of the dry food dilemma, and I thought I know something about cats. Duh!

I tend to agree about the catheter causing irritation leading to some incontinence. As a nurse, I tended to see that a lot, but since I worked on an OB ward, it was somewhat different. Most of the women felt irritation following the removal of the cath, and personally (I've got five young 'uns myself) I can attest to the irritation factor. It's a foreign body, and no matter how well you clean the perineal area, the betadine or povidine you clean the urethra with, can be as irritating as the catheter. I can't imagine how bad it must be for a male, no matter how many stories I heard about men yanking them out and swinging them around their heads. (Okay, off topic, but the word picture still gives me chills.)

Well, I gotta get ready to go to the doctor myself now and parking at Walter Reed too often degenerates into a catfight anyway, so please let us know how brave little Rohan is doing. It's so stressful having an ill kitty. The worry about the cat, the worry about the bill, the worry about the aftereffects and if you're doing what's right . . . oh, it goes on and on, doesn't it. You could write a book, heck, we all could. You and Rohan, and the other little furpillows take care and write when you can - good to talk atcha again - Barb
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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 8 2008, 11:57 AM
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Rohan's back in the hospital. New hospital, farther away (80 mi RT), but I trust them -- used to be my regular vet years ago. Another blockage, right in the penis. Starting to talk about surgery, essentially cutting his penis off. I don't know anything about it, but it horrifies me to do anything so mutilating. I have a lot of research to do.

Right now I'm so thick-headed with sadness, fatigue, and fear --it's like trying to breathe through plexiglass, or swim through wool. ~Kim


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Mink&WillowsMom
post Aug 8 2008, 02:30 PM
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Got to the emergency vet by 5:20a, and they re-cathed him, put in an IV and cleared the block. She couldn't tell if the block was crystals or mucus, but at least his urine wasn't bloody this time. So we're back to where we started, although he's not bleeding and he's got a week's worth of antibiotics going already.

I'm horrified, sad, confused, and afraid.
There's a surgery that's now on the table, though maybe not immediately this weekend. The kind way to say it is "reconstruction of the urethral opening." The blunt reality is that they cut off his penis. I'm aghast at the thought of any kind of mutilating surgery, whether it's cropping a dog's ears, or declawing a cat (which is amputating the fingers at the first knuckle). But, those are for fashion and convenience, whereas this is trying to save his life. Still.

Then, of course, there's the prognosis. I need to learn a whole lot more about that. If he has a good chance of living a normal, healthy, continent life afterwards, then that's one thing. He's only two years old. If he's going to be ill, in pain, or incontinent, then I may have to let him go. I ache to even think about it. I feel like the universe is telling me I'm supposed to give up expectation of having smooth sailing in life again.
2002 - Tinsica died at 18-1/2
2003 - Cheddar died at 16
2005 - Dad "died" in front of me, full-on cardiac arrest and CPR
2006 - Mink died at 3 --tore me in half
2007 - Dad died
2007 - just starting to breathe again, three months later Dad's lovely cat Twitch died at 5
2007 - just starting to breathe again, three months later I totalled my car and got hurt
three months after that, in early February, you can bet I was extra cautious moving through the world...

The parallel arc is that in early October, just before my accident, I began a series of life-changing, transformative, go get your dream seminars. With each of seven trainings, I'd rise high into a new level of skill and possibility. Physically, the winter has been slow and exhausting. The trainings helped me move through healing in a big way, but the up down up down energy shifts has been disorienting. ("Wow, I feel great! Wow, I can hardly move!)

I just completed that series of trainings, excited about the future and happy life was telling me to breathe again,
and arrive home to find half of my income was gone, along with a job I'd held for seven years.
That's okay, I say, I'm full of new skills and possibilities.
Five weeks later, however, the math is starting to get quite squeaky.

And now Rohan is very ill.
I've spent a grand so far, and was faced this morning with euthanizing him, or committing to another thousand+.
And if he needs the surgery.....
I hate being put in the position of adding money to the equation of whether he lives or dies.
But as a friend of mine from the seminars said, "thi$ is a crackable nut."

Stress is a huge factor in why cats get this disease.
All my travelling has been so hard on them.
The pace was insane.
In March I was gone for 13 days, six weeks later I was gone for 7 days, then four weeks later I was gone for 25 days.
Luna has a nervous licking habit now, where she's worn away the fur on her belly.
Sable is limping, the next to visit the vet.
I know the trainings were so valuable, and I was so excited to get to the next one, although I did hold a lot of dread for leaving so long for this last trip. But I kept thinking, surely the cats will get through it okay?

I guess not.
Suddenly, the cost of self-development feels darker, so much more than money.
Do I really want to aim so high, when I have to pay for it with such lows?
kim


--------------------
...You precious children, of four feet, whiskers, and mischief...
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Muffins
post Aug 8 2008, 03:59 PM
Post #19





Group: Moderators
Posts: 776
Joined: 26-February 04
From: Massachusetts, USA
Member No.: 245



Dear (((((((Kim & Rohan wub.gif )

I'm sorry to hear about your Rohan wub.gif .

Please know that you and your whole family are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope that your very handsome guy wub.gif continues to do well.

Love to you and yours,

Denise


--------------------
Our Beloved Girl, Ernestine (AKA) "Ernie-Bird"
April, 1984 - February 7, 2004
***AFFA***
Forever, you will ALWAYS live on in our hearts!
DEPARTED FROM EARTH, NEVER FORGOTTEN.... Love, Mom & Dad xoxoxoxoxo


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*

"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." Immanuel Kant

"Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight" Albert Schweitzer
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LoveThem
post Aug 8 2008, 05:36 PM
Post #20





Group: Pet Lovers
Posts: 2,171
Joined: 2-November 07
Member No.: 3,876



I so sorry to hear about your baby.

As far as surgery....you can also get a second opinion, research the problem and the surgery on the Internet to see if there are any other clues.

As far as the surgery...why is it necessary, what are the alternatives, etc etc. You have probably already done all this but it is all I can think of to help.

I've never heard of any of this but I would sure try all these questions, etc.

Bless that sweet baby.

Judy


--------------------
LITTLE GUY - May 28, 1991 - Sept 10, 2007 - Always in my Heart.
His story: Section D&D: How do I stop crying? and also... My Boy is Gone Forever.

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