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> Confused And Trying To Forgive, One Pet killed another
Storminyte
post Jun 5 2010, 03:27 PM
Post #1





Group: Pet Lovers
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Joined: 4-June 10
From: Georgia
Member No.: 6,521



I came home last week to find one of my 9 month old kittens dead (Ziva)...killed by my own dogs. These are dogs that have lived with cats their whole lives (12 years) and have gotten along fine with the two new kittens that have been living here for 7 months. My other kitten, Frito was curled up with the dogs as if nothing happened.
I can't seem to wrap my head around what might have happened and I am having a hard time forgiving the dogs for their actions.
I feel guilty for not seeing any signs. I did keep a baby gate up when I was not home so that the dogs could not run the whole house as the cats did. Now I am terrified for Frito, even though he appears to be getting along with the dogs just fine. When I leave the house, I put him in the spare bedroom for his safety. He hates it and has been tearing up my carpet trying to get out.
I miss Ziva so much and I can't get that picture out of my head, nor do I look at my dogs the same way.
Has anyone experienced anything like this?? How have you coped with both the loss and the fact that your own "family" did it.

Dee
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tanbuck
post Jun 5 2010, 03:36 PM
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Dee, I'm so sorry about Ziva. That's a horrible experience for you and even worse because you had to find her. I don't have experience with that kind of thing with pets but unfortunately, I have that experience (similar, not death) with family. It's very difficult to deal with the innocence lost at the hands of someone you love. I do understand how you don't look at the dogs the same. It will take time for that to subside. Sometimes you will be at ease knowing that it is the nature of our pets to kill and sometimes you will be enraged with them. There's never a way to know exactly what our pets think. And that makes everything so hard. I hope that you will be able to come to a peaceful point with this. I just can't imagine. I'm so sorry.
-Donna
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moon_beam
post Jun 5 2010, 04:14 PM
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Hi, Dee, please permit me to offer you my sincerest sympathies in the loss of your precious Ziva. Losing a beloved companion is never easy regardless of the circumstances or how long we have been blessed with the privilege of their company. Please try not to be too angry with your dogs. It could have been a very simple accident, at least I hope it was. Accident or not, though, does not diminish the grief of loss of your precious Ziva and the very real concern you have about your dogs. However, the fact that Frito was curled up with your dogs as though nothing had happened is an indication that Frito has no fear of them - - which, if they had "attacked" Ziva, I would think Frito's reaction to the dogs would be one of fear.

But I can certainly understand your feelings of caution for Frito. Whatever happened with Ziva you certainly don't want to happen with Frito. So, separating them when you're not home is a really good idea, if for no other reason than your peace of mind.

Finding your precious Ziva was a very traumatic event for you. Clinical studies prove that the mind is imprinted with the traumatic events and replay like a phonographic needle stuck in the grove of a record - - if you're familiar with that. It's going to take awhile before the image of finding Ziva and the connection to the dogs is going to subside, and allow you to feel like you can trust your dogs again.

I know your life has been changed forever by this loss, Dee. How do you heal from this type of loss? One day at a time, Dee, knowing that you are not alone in your grief journey. Each of us are here for you for as long and as often as you need us. We are also here to help you through the journey of regaining trust in your dogs again, if possible, for they are a part of your grief journey, too.

Dee, I wish there was something more I could offer you, but please know you are in my thoughts and prayers, and please let us know how things are going.

Peace and blessings,
moon_beam


--------------------
In heaven's perfect garden there is no grief or pain, and all of God's creation join the angels' sweet refrain.

The most blessed way I have of knowing God's comforting love and grace is to look into the eyes and heart of God's creatures' sweet angelic face.
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ladywolf
post Jun 5 2010, 08:18 PM
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Group: Pet Lovers
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From: Oracle, Arizona
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Oh, Dee, what a terrible thing to have happen. I am so so sorry that you lost your precious Ziva in this way--but truthfully, you don't know what happened. It could have been an accident, Ziva could have innocently provoked one or both of your dogs, anything could have happened.

I know how you feel, at least to some degree. For the first twelve years or so of her life, my Ladywolf, who just died two days ago, was a total pacifist, and then she killed a kitten, and within the next couple of years, bit two small dogs (separate incidents.) The dog incidents revolved around the other dogs invading Lady's FOOD territory, which was not a good thing for them to do. Lady had been abused as a puppy, and one of the things done to her was that the abusive owner used to put down a plate of food, let her take a bite, and then take it away from her!

So she was always fiercely protective of her food and bones, and each of the dogs (though not the kitten) breached her territorial boundaries. One dog was okay after a visit to the vet, and the other dog ultimately died, but that was NOT Lady's fault. "All" she did was bite the other dog, but the owner couldn't afford to get vet care for her, and she died about 7 days later of a resulting infection, which was terribly sad. (I couldn't afford vet care for his dog either. It was awful. I would have paid for it if I could have, but I had no money at all at the time.)

So each incident was explainable--wolves (and dogs) are naturally predatory, and Ladywolf had NOT grown up with cats, hence she went for the kitten.
One dog was trying to eat food out of Lady's bowl, and the other was on our property trying to steal one of Lady's bones.

But...I never fully trusted Lady after that. I kind of felt as if I had a ticking time-bomb on my hands, and watched Ladywolf very anxiously whenever she was around small animals, and took her out of the scene as fast as I could. Nothing like that ever happened again--but my feelings about Ladywolf changed slightly, and never changed back. I didn't blame her, but I didn't trust her either. The dog who died was the dog of a close friend, and feelings were very very tough for a long time after that. Now that she is dead, I feel a slight feeling of relief that I will never have to watch her so closely again--and I loved her madly, richly, deeply, and miss her agonizingly much...

Please don't blame your dogs for whatever happened. But I would take it seriously, and protect your remaining kitten. It may be that one of your dogs became disturbed with the kitten for some reason--it probably wasn't "gang warfare." It's very surprising, given that they grew up with cats for all those years, but don't let your guard down and forget that dogs are predatory by nature. I would do whatever you can to keep your kitten separated from your dogs when you're not home.

So yes, I do understand how you are feeling. I almost shunned Lady after the kitten episode, which wasn't fair of me either, as it really wasn't her fault--just her instincts showing up. I did better with her with the two small dog incidents, except that the ensuing death of the second dog was a horrifying experience.

I feel like I'm rambling, but you have brought up a subject that I have almost never talked about before. I wanted everyone to believe that MY wolf was totally safe to be around for all living things, but it wasn't completely true. I watched her food scene like a hawk ever after these episodes, and made sure that no one EVER fed her in the presence of another dog. And, much as I loved her, and she was my life partner, I'm not sure that I'd ever take on another wolf hybrid. She did nothing that any other kind of dog might not have done, but still...

It's possible that what happened to your beloved Ziva was the result of playing that got too rough. Dogs can't really know how delicate a small kitten's body is. Dogs love to rough-house; it's their nature. Please forgive your dogs, but guard Frito from harm.

I am so, so sorry that this happened to you and your's!

Big Hugs from Margi
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Storminyte
post Jun 6 2010, 06:47 AM
Post #5





Group: Pet Lovers
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From: Georgia
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First Margi, I want to say I am so sorry for your recent loss of your LadyWolf. You will be in my thoughts and prayers as you go through your own difficult time.

I want to thank each of you for your support and prayers during this very difficult time. I appreciate your pespectives...sometimes I forget that they are animals and not my kids. I really want to believe that they were just rough housing with Ziva and it was purely an accident. But I do look at them differently....and that I feel guilty about since they run and greet me with their little "smiling" faces as if nothing has happened. But as you all reminded me, they are animals with instincts.

The other thing making it hard right now is that Frito, is obviously missing his sister....he goes into his play room and cries, I'm sure trying to find her. These two were just about inseparable...if they were not in the same room they cried to find each other. Her and Frito showed up in our garage when they were about 8 weeks old. Ziva was extremely skittish...Frito came to us as soon as we presented food...Ziva on the other hand hid under and in the vehicles. We needed to move the cars out but were afraid we would hurt her. They finally curled up in the bottom of the engine compartment where we could reach them. I grabbed Ziva and put her in a carrier so that we could move the cars out of the garage. The garage became their home for about 2 weeks as we tried to get Ziva to come to us. At one point she bit me so badly that I needed to go to the Doctor for a tetanus shot. But I still knew that we could get the "sweet" to come out. We were finally able to touch the top of her head without her freaking out. We moved them into the house to a small room and it took about another 2 weeks until we could pick her up and hold her...although she still tensed up. She blossomed into such a sweet, loving kitten....I guess, I bonded more closely with her because I had to spend more time trying to gain her trust. So, I feel guilty that I was unable to protect her in her own home. Frito is not liking it, but I am being over protective of him and that won't go away...

I know I need to take this one day at a time...I dread coming home and walking in my door...everytime I do, I relive that image of Ziva...I hope these fade soon...I think that will help me forgive my other babies...but right now, those images are what I see before I see them, and that makes it very difficult.

Thanks to each of you for listening and putting a perspective on things for me that I probably wouldn't have been able to see through my grief. I appreciate all your support.



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moon_beam
post Jun 6 2010, 11:09 AM
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Hi, Dee, oh I can so relate to your feelings about Frito and Ziva. My Noah and Abbygayle were inseparable, too. If you read "Abbygayle's Journey" you will see that Abbygayle died in March from cancer. Now it is just my Noah and me.

The only thing you can do for Frito is to try to comfort him and tell him how much you love him and how proud you are of him. The concerns with his grieving will be if he stops eating and drinking water. If he does, take him to the vet as quickly as possible. Some companion animals literally grieve themselves to death.

Dee, this grief journey is filled with so many different emotions at any given time. Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers, and please do let us know how things are going.

Peace and blessings,
moon_beam


--------------------
In heaven's perfect garden there is no grief or pain, and all of God's creation join the angels' sweet refrain.

The most blessed way I have of knowing God's comforting love and grace is to look into the eyes and heart of God's creatures' sweet angelic face.
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ladywolf
post Jun 8 2010, 01:06 AM
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Group: Pet Lovers
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From: Oracle, Arizona
Member No.: 6,254



Hi Dee-

I'm just checking in to see how you are doing now? Have you managed to make any peace with what happened? I hope so.

I expect that you are grieving--please give us an update!

Big Hugs--Margi and Spiritwolf
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Storminyte
post Jun 8 2010, 04:45 PM
Post #8





Group: Pet Lovers
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From: Georgia
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Hi Margi,

I want to thank you for your words and support as I know you are also going through your own grief process. Frito and I are having our good moments and our bad ones...Frito has taken to following every move I make, not sure whether its for him or for me. Either way I enjoy his company and companionship. I've spent some time reading articles and stories on this website and that has truly helped me as well. I'm so glad that I found this site...it has definitely been a comfort to me.

I miss Ziva terribly...just got her ashes back yesterday and I put her in my place of honor. So, yesterday was a hard day but I'm trying to concentrate on the happier times I had with her.

I still dread opening the door after work, as the whole incident plays through my head but I'm hoping that will soon fade. The dogs are always glad to see me and they act as if nothing happened...I'm slowly beginning to forgive them as I sort things through in my head and heart.

How are you doing with your loss?? LadyWolf sounds like she was a wonderful soul-mate to you...and I'm sure she is still with you in spirit, protecting the one she loves. Please know that you are in my thoughts and prayers....

Again, I want to thank you and everyone that is offering thoughts, prayers and support....it is not an easy road when we lose a companion, but it helps when you can share your feelings with others that understand the bond between human and animal. That's been hard for me because a lot of friends try to tell me that it was just a kitten, you can get another one....they talk like they are disposable...needless to say, I have kept my feelings to myself and to those here that truly understand the depth and beauty of that relationship bond.
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madi
post Jun 8 2010, 09:13 PM
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Group: Pet Lovers
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Hi Dee, what a dreadful thing to have happened, I have dogs and cats that live harmoniously together too, but after hearing what happened to Ziva, I might reconsider leaving them locked up together when I'm not home. Many years ago, I had an old dog that followed me everywhere, I had found him in the hills as a young dog and we were inseperable. I also had a young yearling colt that I had raised from 3 months and I loved them both. One day I left my dog on the porch and went out across the paddock to get the hay, but when I turned around I noticed he had followed me and as I went back to get him, I saw my horse racing across to where he was. I was too late, my horse reared up and killed him instantly, he broke his back, there was absolutely nothing I could do to save him. Well, I had a love hate thing for that horse for a long time after that, I loved him, but I hated him at the same time, I just didn't look at him the same way and with the love I used to have for him. After a lot of grieving, I forced myself to realise that my horse was not a human being, he was at that mischievious age and may have only been playing, who knows? Well I eventually ended up loving him again with all my heart and he lived until he was 20 and I missed him terrible when he died. I had to re-arrange my thinking a lot to accept what had happened and remember that he was an animal and didn't know better. Your dogs sound like wonderful animals, they don't know that what they've done has hurt you so much and I would give them the benefit of the doubt. Lots of love and understanding for you xx

madi xx
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Storminyte
post Jun 9 2010, 07:06 PM
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From: Georgia
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Thank you Madi for the words of support...I am so sorry that you had to witness your dog get killed by your horse. Let me ask, does the vision and the replay of the tragic event ever go away?? I see Ziva everytime I walk in the door from work and right now I'm really overwhelmed by the sight of her. It makes it hard to move past my anger at the dogs...I know it's only been 12 days, but it just doesn't yet seem to be fading. I've been trying to concentrate and focus only on the good...that works until I walk into the house. I feel like it's groundhog day and I almost expect to see the same scene every day. I know it's not possible, but that's my gut reaction right now....Anyway, just curious since I've never lost a companion in this manner before.

Thanks again for the support and understanding....

Dee
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